So I have been on the hybrid band wagon for quite some time. I purchased my 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid new and have enjoyed a lifetime MPG of about 39-42 (exactly what it should be). Of course the features on my HCH are far and few between, so in 2010 I decided to upgrade to a Prius IV with the solar roof option so I could feel a little more luxury in my drive. I have done a drive comparison in 2010 and 2011 to compare the two by alternating driving them every other day along the same work route. Both fresh oil changes and routine maint was up to date. Here is what my little experiment came up with. Current Mileage (at start) HCH: 51,000 Prius IV: 15,000 Route: 7 miles Highway 65mph 8 miles Streetways 35mph Total Miles Driven in each test ~3000 Oct - Dec Results: HCH 40.5 MPG Prius IV 39.8 MPG Feb - April HCH 40.1 MPG Prius IV 42.2 MPG This was done in the twin cities, so during the winter months the temperatures were below 20 degrees at all times and often below 0. A trend I noticed was that the prius tends to hit around 35 MPG when below 0 while the HCH maintains 40 just about all the time. As the temperatures warmed up the Prius consistently had a significantly higher trip average (sometimes as high as 50). Overall I was pretty disappointed that an older Civic Hybrid model could beat a brand new prius, but I am still happy with the car and all of the luxurious (gas guzzling, I'm sure) features. I will attempt this experiment again in the summer months and compare, however I still think rating the Prius at 51mpg isn't fair because my civic is rated at 42 highway and 39 city.. it matches up while the Prius falls short. I was wondering if anyone else has had any experiences with the prius not living up to it's MPG expectation. The main reason behind my experiment was because when I had complained to a dealer about the poor mileage they immediately sited my driving habits (the lead foot!) for the difference. In reality I think that the Prius is just too sensitive to temperature changes where other comparable hybrids may not be. We'll have to see how my summer experiment goes before I can back that statement.
Your short distance driving is making your Prius mpg average lower. The Prius warm-up penalty is rather severe in the first few miles, in order for it to squash the emissions during start-up. I suppose the HCH does not have as much of a warm-up penalty, since the ICE must run whenever the vehicle is moving, due to the design of IMA. It is one of the Prius' disadvantages, or an advantage if you consider that it is one of the major reasons the Prius' emissions are so low. I have little doubt that on a 20 mile commute, your Prius' MPG will go up to at least 45 mpg. On a 30 mile commute, you should see 50 mpg. Driven moderately, of course. I also suspect your HCH, on longer distance, will not achieve those mileages. My weather is completely different, but I would have to drive like a maniac to get 40 mpg. Today I drove very erratically, 70-80 mph on freeway, gunning it on green lights. Going into power band, major hills, etc. and I got end result about 52 mpg.
The Prius is sensitive to pedal pressure. At 45mph, if the HSI bar is below the right side of the ECO logo, it might get 50mpg, If at left side of ECO logo it might get 90mpg but the car wont accelerate or decelerate noticeably.
Since you seem to have some expectation based upon EPA mileage estimates, please read http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...uth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.html. Your new Prius and its tires weren't broken in yet vs. your HCH. Per http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...mpg-effect-replacing-worn-tires-new-ones.html, replacing a set of worn tires w/identical new ones can lower apparent mpg. You could benefit from grille blocking in colder weather along w/an EBH. Grille blocking is cheap. EBH is a lot more $. Does your drive begin with the city or highway portion? I can't speak to your HCH's behavior, but during the city portions of your drive w/a cold ICE, you can prevent the ICE from unnecessarily running by better managing heater use and using the eco button (http://priuschat.com/forums/newbie-forum/91431-one-3.html#post1287385).
Actually I drove my HCH cross country from Seattle, WA to Minneapolis MN and attained an AMAZING 45mpg. I was totally stunned because my average in the city was the 39-42. The entire trip ended up at 45.4 during semi-snowy April drive. It seems to do amazingly well on the highway, but not nearly as good as the Prius in stop and go circumstances. Unfortunately since the twin cities are so compact I will probably never drive more than 15 miles at a time, that being said I am sad that I will probably never see those big 50+ MPG trips if the warm up time really is well over 20 miles =(
The article was an interesting read. A lot of things that I really didn't know about how to come up with the numbers. As for the tires the Civic recently had new tires on with approx 2k miles on tread while the Prius had its original wheels at 15k. So who knows that might have made the HCH numbers lower than they should have been. I think grill blocking would really help both cars, I never thought about it for smaller cars but we always do it with our trucks during the winter so it makes sense. The experiment was really just something I thought others might find interesting. Especially if you live in a cold area and often make short drives similar to mine, had I known this before hand or had someone shown me some numbers like this I may have changed my decision to go with the a 2010 and just waited for the plugs-ins to get here. I don't doubt the Prius gets amazing mpg in places like Arizona or California, or for people that drive long distances regularly. Also don't get me wrong I LOVE the car and all the great features. Best car I ever bought. I just wanted to share the results (and I got to admit, some disappointment) of a direct comparison in a specific condition that millions of people often drive in where the Prius doesn't come up as #1 in MPG where I had thought it would.
Not me. I also live in the Twin Cities and have driven over 215,000 miles with 3 different Prius over the past 10.5 years (documented in great detail, see the spreadsheets on my website). Here's my most recent year's data: .
For some further data points, here's what CR got on the 3rd gen Prius: Most fuel-efficient cars. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem ConsumerReports.org - Most fuel-efficient cars goes back further enough to cover your gen of HCH. On CR's tests, an 03 HCH CVT got 26 city/45 highway, 36 mpg overall and 44 mpg on 150-mile trip.
Hmm, Does the Prius IV have those 17 inch tires ? Nope... The Prius pedal does take some learing. Its not like previous cars, whereas the HCH is, and presumably you knew how to drive previous cars before getting the HCH. This alone could explain the difference. Also, the temperature you set the climate control to, as well. A friend of mine has a HCH, the older one, and he is always manipulating the climate control to get the engine to shut off in cold weather. Which is easy. With a Prius, you have to do up/down buttons, but wtih the HCH of my friends, its just a rotary dial with interior temperature markings on it. Perchance you are more familiar with this, than with the Prius temperture control? Even with the exhaust heat recovery, below 20 F, the Prius works much better with grill blocking, and takes some time to heat up without. There was also the episode where one PC member's Prius was delivered with the coolant system not properly purged, and he was getting very little heat in the winter. The Hybrid control is going to run the engine allot if that happens. As it bases its hybrid operating modes allot on the engine coolant temperature. And, yea, Toyota made the Prius bigger and heavier, but smaller inside this time around (Gen III) , and the 2nd Gen was even bigger than the HCH II already. So, given those circumstances, yea, your results could happen. Hypermilers say a HCH II will outdo the Prius (2nd or 3rd gens) on highway opertion in the upper 50's mph. Maybe Hobbit has something to say about that, though. Whereas, with proper usage, the Prius will far outdistance the HCH II in suburban secondary road usage (at least in the summer). My experience is the 3rd Gen Prius is not as effective in everyday economy driving as the 2nd Gen. But, my car is realtively new yet, and it may break in some still. The 1.8 liter is big hog in pulse and glide (about 10 mpg worse than the second Gen). And the Cd may be good, but the CdA is not as good as the 2nd Gen. And its really CdA (Coeficient of Drag times cross section Area) that counts. But, it did do about 5 mpg better in the cold weather here, versus about 5 mpg worse in the warm weather (so far) than my 2006 Gen 2 Prus.
Seems like you have a great vehicle in your '04 HCH. Personally, I would have put more miles onto it if it were mine, but our situations are different. The solar roof lowers MPG a bit due to its weight, and in that it is not as aerodynamic. Also you are still in your winter formulation of gasoline. I mean, if you've achieved >50 mpg for a long stretch of flat highway during summer weather, then your vehicle is fine, and your lower mpg is due to particularities of your route and weather, and not your vehicle. Check your tire pressures on both vehicles and report back if possible.
Welcome ! Do stick around. I'm not aware of anyone else here who owns both the HCH and Prius. Hopefully, this experiment can be repeated after 5 , 10 , 15 yrs of operation or until one can't run anymore ... The comparison between the HCH and Prius pitches a normal sedan upgraded with a hybrid system with a purpose built hybrid for maximizing fuel economy, so I totally understand your expectations. Notice the HSD does not perform near as well in terms of fuel economy in any other Toyota sedan other than the Prius.
i have a 14 mile round trip commute. i have driven an 04 and 08 for the last 7+ years. i get 50-55 in the winter (it only takes a few miles to warm up) and 60-65 in the summer. my wife gets 40 around town in her hybrid camry. and i disagree with tpfun (what else is new) the hybrid camry is a 30-40% improvement over the regular camry, that puts it in line with the civic i believe.
I've attributed the HCH to be like ADSL and the Prius to be like cable internet. You get more consistent mpgs with the HCH but the Prius has a larger swing in mpg between seasons. (as well as driving style and all the other factors). Moreso in the Gen 2 than in the Gen 3 (which is supposed to be targeted at 50mpg for the average Joe in summer conditions)
