Engine Strain 200k city vs highway

Prius II (Read the OP)

Temperature ? MPG from display or based on gallons pumped ? Tire pressure ? Any mods ?

If you think a mere 10yrs suffice to call hybrids a mature design, I won't argue that.

 

The 1899 Lohner Porsche, the first Hybrid Vehicle?

Lohner-Porsche Mixte Hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hybrids have been around evey bit as long as Diesels.
Having grown up with multiple VW diesels, & regular Vdubs,
I'm much happier owning 2 Prii now.
The cost in $ and is far lower for the Prii.

 

Prius II is a trim level in a 2010 Prius, for 2011 it is renamed Prius 2. I suspect you are thinking of the Gen II Prius, but I have no hint the OP is.

It has been longer than 10 years, but there have been 4 models of Prius so far, and the changes are getting subtler each time. (1997 to 2011)

 

What the heck are you talking about? We've already established that the 3rd gen Prius gets better gas city, highway and combined mileage on the EPA tests than the Golf TDI.

See Side-by-Side Comparison that skoorbmax has pointed you too. SageBrush also got his screenshots from fueleconomy.gov.

These are other tests where the Prius clearly outperformed the Golf TDI in terms of mileage.

 

Prius 2,II,Gen2,Gen II, Gen III Prius2, GenIII Prius II, Gen 3 Prius 3, that's just great. Yes, Gen II.

No crap, CR reports similar findings. Rechargeable batteries are consumable parts, they will deteriorate. If you think they don't, will you buy (or recommend others to) a used Prius with 100-150K miles on it without even asking if the battery has been changed ?

quote: Not all Prius owners have been lucky with their batteries, though. Many have complained about batteries failing between 100,000 to 150,000 miles of use. Consumer Reports rated the reliability of the battery of the 2001-2003 Prius as worse than expected. A brand-new replacement battery can cost between $2,200 and $2,600
Toyota Prius stands the test of time - Chicago Tribune

 

So what are trying to say? Are you trying to compare discontinued Gen II Prius highway mileage to a current Golf TDI?

Toyota has done away w/the Roman numerals to designated 2010+ Prius models and gone w/Two, Three, Four, Five.

And to quote from the above article:

The above is what people frequently do if they have a failed out of warranty HV battery, otherwise they can go w/solutions like FAQ. It's rather convenient for you to scaremonger with a high battery cost by leaving off the phrase following your quote.

For those in CARB states, such as California, model year 2004 and beyond Priuses sold, registered and operated in those states have a 10 year/150K mile warranty on the HV battery.

 

Here's what MT says

quote:
The Prius is slow (9.7 seconds to 60), but its performance is not uniformly terrible. Those little tires hang on for dear life in corners (without much crying), ... the Golf TDI reminds me of the lighter, smaller (and, to me, more elegant) 3 Series cars BMW


1ST PLACE: VOLKSWAGEN GOLF TDI DSG
The TDI wins this round too, but only by a few strokes. The Golf's bigger tires, faster steering, and conventional styling make for an interesting counterpoint to the mileage-is-everything Prius.

2ND PLACE: TOYOTA PRIUS III
Futuristic, intellectually entertaining, and certainly the fuel-economy choice for non-car enthusiasts. The Prius's problem is that ain't us.
2010 Toyota Prius III vs. 2010 Volkswagen Golf TDI DSG - Result - Motor Trend

 

Yes, rechargable batteries degrade, i am aware of that. Does this non scientific test -prove- that the long term prius mpg reduces because of it's battery? No, all it -proves- is that those prius tested showed reduced mpg during the test period.

Maybe the transmission started to wear, maybe they didn't pump up their tyres, maybe they started using cheap petrol, maybe they put in cheaper non-synthetic oil, maybe they started carrying more weight in the vehicle, maybe they changed drivers or driving style or route or speed, maybe they changed HVAC setting, maybe they started driving with lots of accessories on, maybe they started parking outside instead of in the garage, maybe they stopped using an EBH, maybe they fitted bigger wheels, maybe they didn't fit low rolling resistance tyres, maybe they fitted a remote starter. There will be other things as well but that's a good list. go away and -PROVE- those things all stayed the same and we can start talking about batteries. I suspect that actually any car measured over a similar time/distance will see a similar increase in consumption.

Still doesn't get over the fact you pulled the idea out of your arse that a tdi gets better mpg than the prius. it doesn't.

 

TPfun (Some assume you are here to misinform, I prefer the theory that you are trying to generalize from a single vehicle driven by non typical drivers)

Using your theory, I can 'prove' that the 2001 battery actually improves with age and become stronger over time.
http://john1701a.com/prius/documents/Prius-2001_MPG_Graphs_Lifetime.pdf

In reality, this owner is seeing economic results from improved driving, and the gain over time is due to driver involvement. That is why I suggested that the dip over time in your graphs was due to my theory that the DOE drivers were not personally rewarded for better driving habits.

I feel that neither of the graphs represents hardware differences over time. To get the graph you wish you had, one would start with a 100 hybrid owners who had years of hypermileing experience each, and make sure they felt the pain of driving inefficiently. That would eliminate a 'learning curve' effect and a 'just got bored' effect. I am not that sort of driver, but Priuschat has them.

 

So glad I read the last few pages. While largely a waste of time due to factually inaccurate posts, I suppose it would be helpful for someone making a purchase decision to see that various bits of incorrect information and the truths associated with them from everyone's great responses. Now it's my turn to waste time...

I heard tpfun murdered a little girl in 1990. I mean, I'm not saying it's true, it's just what people are saying. How do we know tpfun didn't murder a little girl in 1990? Have any of you heard him deny murdering a girl in 1990? Can't you just put any sentence in question form to refute what someone has said like people do in those online forums? I just can't find any evidence to the contrary. I mean, I'm not one to jump to conclusions, but from what I've heard it looks like he really did murder a little girl in 1990.

I'm not a troll, just saying, tpfun, you haven't shown us any proof that you didn't murder a little girl in 1990, burden of proof is on you, buddy. The trend is clearly against you.

 

JP,
Everyone on this site generalizes mostly from their own experience. Even CR tests only ONE vehicle, and yet people here quote those mpg figures they find.
John's charts prove John can get his mpg higher over the course of driving (and I guess modding) his Prius from 2001-2003 but why does it end in 2003 ?
The DOE sample is from a group of drivers with a small fleet of 4 vehicles over 2 time periods. Which set do you think tends towards the norm ?

Yes, someone who learns to drive better will get better mileage initially but I expect the long term trend to take hold after that initial learning period.

Well, that study does not exist. Point me to the database and corresponding chart.
Just bear in mind, mods are extraneous factors in any long term mpg study.

Since you agree that the hybrids tested show reduced mpg, what do you think is the likely cause ? This is the long term HEV testing program and I believe they do try eliminate extraneous variables e.g. no grill blocking (no mods), no change in tire types etc

It does for the Prius Gen II.


Finally, this is strictly OT but assuming both of you do believe in the Global Warming theories, can you explain to us why ?

 

He didn't deny it, he must have killed that poor little girl

 

...

 

Woooosh.

That went right over tpfun's head.

 

Now he's telling lies and then pretending he never said anything! Sounds like the action of a child murderer to me.

 

tpfun needs to get his own Prius. He is suffering from a serious Prius Envy.

 

It could be any of the things i mentioned. The absolute most likely is a change in human behaviour, and my GUESS would be people stop watching the numbers after a while and lose interest in driving economically. That is a GUESS, same as yours.

Ok. It doesn't for the Prius Gen III.

My profession is data analysis, and I regularly apply occams razor to problems. I also subscribe to a peer reviewed scientific journal. My own interpretation of the publically available data, plus the peer reviewed scientific census says global warming is real. I'm perfectly open to the idea that it isn't real, because that's how science works.

 

Yeah, it would have required him to actually read and understand something someone else had said

 

And we are supposed to take your word for it ?

 

That i'm a data analyst or that the scientific consensus says global warming is real?