Death of main battery +(

:cheer2:
Thanks for the assistance! I'm going to make an appointment with the nearest dealer (30 miles away) and get it diagnosed. I have other things going on with the car: both actuators in the front doors are having difficulties and I get a high pitched whine if I accelerate strongly while going up hill (hub?) I will get all checked out by a dealer sooner rather than later.

 

No, we haven't actually identified the battery to be the failed part, just the 3009 code pointing to leaking voltage. Could the high pitched whine I hear when accelerating uphill be related to this problem? I am planning on taking the car to a Toyota Dealer to have it completely diagnosed to see what is really the matter. I would have taken it there first, but my experiences with Toyota dealers is that they really don't know what they are doing. Maybe they have learned something in the last 5 years? I spent $500. on a new gas tank because of a Master Warning Light (no codes) fwithin months of when I first got the car from a Toyota Dealer, and the problem reasserted itself a few months later. I found that if I turned the car off and on four times, the code would go away. I've been doing this for five years and 80,000 miles! The car dealer I bought the used car from in 2005 told me that the car didn't have a transmission, so the transmission couldn't fail. And, I spent $150 to have my car towed to the dealer to get a new key made (at the advice of the dealer), and another $70 to purchase a key with a transponder, only to find out that they couldn't make a key for me. You would think that the employees at the dealer would have known this before I had the car towed, and before they cut the transponder key for me. Thankfully, I found the key I had lost, so I didn't need to replace the ECU to get a key made for the car.

 

Yes, it is certainly possible that the whine is related to the DTC P3009 problem. Perhaps a transaxle stator winding is burnt, which is causing 1) high voltage to leak to ground and 2) unusual vibration resulting in the whine. Since you are hearing abnormal noises it makes sense to have your car checked out soon.

Regarding the gas tank, if that was replaced due to an engine low power or no-start problem and you still have the issue, you might try having the throttle body interior and throttle plate cleaned. A TSB related to that subject was recently posted in this forum.

Are you taking your car to the Flagstaff Toyota dealer? I'd be concerned whether that dealer's service staff has sufficient Prius experience, since that city is quite small.

I've had good experiences with Precision Toyota in Tucson but that is too distant from your location. Unfortunately I haven't heard much good regarding the Phoenix Toyota dealership service depts.

 

Transmission issues normally create low-pitched howls or scraping noises.

Do you hear any unusual noises when braking aggressively on a quiet street at, say, 25 MPH?

 

No, no unusual noises when braking at all. My regular mechanic said it was a hub going bad? The other symptom is that when in reverse, it is rough, and I can feel a slip or jump when reversing out of a parking spot.

 

No unusual noises when braking. I do feel a jump or slip when backing out of a parking space, though. Is that relevant?

 

Yes, I'm at Findlay Toyota in Flagstaff. Not only is this a small city, but this is a new dealership as well. I'm not planning on getting the work done today, though. I'll keep posting as I find out more. Thanks for the help!

 

Patrick,

I just got word from the Service Rep. My car has 20 codes, not just one! Lots of things are pointing to the transaxle. There was some corrosion on the battery, but not a significant amount. My dash had a brake icon lilt up, the check engine light lit, and the master thingee (exclamation point within a triangle). The car also had the exclamation point over the car icon on the touchscreen.

I'm told that the mechanic has 30 years of experience with Toyota, and has worked extensively on the Prius. He will be calling Toyota come Monday morning due to the number of codes. I'm leaving the car with them so that the diagnosis can be completed on Monday.

 

Thanks for the update. I'd be interested in knowing what the codes are. As there are so many, if you can find out just the codes that start with the letter "P" (which stands for a powertrain problem) and post them, we can comment on those.

 

Dealer says the battery and battery computer are failing. I'm going to ask about codes. Their quote is 4628. yikes! If I can get the car to Green Valley, what can I expect?

(on my birthday, no less! ... Happy Birthday to meeee...)

 

If you can obtain the DTC codes that begin with P, we can comment on whether the dealer's diagnosis is reasonable. In particular, it may not be necessary to replace both the traction battery and the traction battery ECU.

In the meantime I suggest you may want to see whether you can find an independent shop in the Sedona/Flagstaff area that would be willing to provide the labor involved in replacing the traction battery. I estimate the labor time involved to be around 4 hours or so.

As an alternative to buying a new battery which is priced at ~$2,300, you can buy a used traction battery for a lower price. Re-InVolt is a possible supplier for you to consider: Remanufactured Hybrid Vehicle Battery Packs

 

I've looked at the Re Involt batteries, and I'd be happy to have one installed, but the nearest installer (from their website), as far as I can tell, is a bit further than Palm Desert in California (about a 5 hour drive). If anyone knows of one closer, I'd love to find out about it.

The codes are P3000 and P3009. They told me that originally there were about 20 codes, but when they cleared them, those are the only two that remained. It's hard to get to the mechanic in a dealer shop. You deal with the service desk person, and get second hand information.

When I drove the car home, the check engine light and the brake lights weren't showing at first, then they came on a few minutes into the drive home. The car runs smoothly. If it weren't for the lights, I wouldn't be noticing anything peculiar.

2001 Prius, 134,000 miles.

 

You need the diagnostic codes from the battery ECU. P3000 from the HV ECU simply means that the battery ECU is reporting a code.

The other codes: P3101 is Engine System Malfunction and is the HV ECU reporting that the Engine ECU either gave it some bad information generally, that it reported that the engine didn't start, or that there might be a transaxle malfunction (meaning that the engine wouldn't start).

C1521 and C1522 are codes from the power steering ECU indicating a problem with the motor circuit.

I'd start by replacing the 12V auxiliary battery. All kinds of codes can get thrown when this is weak, and it's certainly possible for misfires to start if the spark is weak, leading to poor power (P3190), no-start (P3191), and then low HV battery charge as the car repeatedly tries to spin up the engine.

You then need them to charge the HV battery with Toyota's charger. Battery block voltages should be at least 14V - the Gen 2 Prius shows 1 out of 8 bars when the voltage drops to 215.4V, 15.38V per block, which is supposed to be about 40% SoC. (The Gen 2 has 14 blocks, while the Gen 1 has 19.) 8% SoC could well not be enough to start the car. Battery University says:

"The typical end-of-discharge voltage for nickel-based batteries is 1V/cell. At that voltage level, roughly 99% of the energy is spent and the voltage starts to drop rapidly if the discharge continued. Discharging beyond the cut-off voltage must be avoided, especially under heavy load.

"If the battery is discharged at a rate higher than 1C, the end-of-discharge point of a nickel-based battery is typically lowered to 0.9V/cell. This compensates for the voltage drop induced by the internal resistance of the cells, wiring, protection devices and contacts. A lower cut-off point also produces better capacity readings when discharging a battery at cold temperatures."

'C' is the nominal current at which the battery would discharge in one hour. For the Prius this is 6.5A, the capacity quoted as 6.5Ah. For the Gen 1 this equates to 1.7 kW at 273.6V - the car does discharge the battery much faster than this, so a lower end-of-discharge may be appropriate. Still, a block voltage of 12V or lower to me says 'dead'. The battery should tolerate at least one complete discharge in its life, though. NiMH chemistry can usually handle several hundred complete cycles.

If, after replacing the aux battery, recharging the HV battery and clearing the codes, it still refuses to start, you should check the battery ECU for any P3011-P3029 codes. These are the 'battery block N weak' codes, that indicate that the block has a significantly lower voltage than its neighbours. If a block has a voltage difference of more than 1.2V it typically indicates that one of the cells in one of the modules has a short. You might also see a P3006, Battery SoC Are Uneven, code.

It still doesn't necessarily mean that the battery is bad - sometimes these codes can be a fault in the sensor wiring rather than an actual problem. See Luscious Garage | Blog | Gen 1 Prius Battery Failure, P3006 for more information.

If the P3000 code doesn't come back, I'd look at other causes for a no-start and poor power.

 

As I say above, P3000 indicates that the battery ECU has a stored code.

P3009 indicates current flow from some part of the HV system to the low-voltage side. It can be caused by any part of the HV system, but it's detected by the battery ECU. The service manual details how to isolate the problem area.

The code can be caused by a leak of electrolyte from the battery. The modules should have been re-sealed with a Special Service Campaign, but there's no guarantee it was done properly. Luscious Garage have an article on it: Luscious Garage | Blog | Toyota Hybrids P3009: High Voltage Leak Detected, internal to battery

LG also have an article on P3009 caused by a short in the motor winding: Luscious Garage | Blog | Gen 1 Prius Transmission Repair, P3009, P3120, P3125

 

I thought you had previously reported unusual noise or whine in post #41? Has that disappeared now? If the whine is still present, did your mechanic diagnose the problem?

If you don't notice any driveability issues, I suggest that you continue to drive the car as-is, until a problem appears.

Considering the age and odometer reading, the car doesn't have much market value so you may just want to drive it until it dies, then buy a replacement vehicle - rather then expend significant $$$$ on confirming the source of the P3009 problem and fixing it. Good luck.

 

I had a high pitched noise when accelerating uphill, a mechanic said it was a hub going. But, I didn't notice it on the way to and back from Flagstaff. I did notice this morning, however, that when backing the car out of the driveway in reverse, the car shuddered significantly. I noticed the shudder again as I started it going forward, but then smooth sailing over 5mph.

 

Do you know a resource to find where rebuilt batteries for the Prius can be had, and to find mechanics willing to work on them for less than the dealers want?

 

Thanks for the link to the motor winding blog. That blog also states the shuddering symptom which I definitely have. I need to talk to the mechanic who diagnosed the battery and battery ecu bad, to find out just what he used for that diagnosis, besides the 3009 code. If that's all he used, then I definitely didn't get my $100 worth of diagnosis, since these posts lead me to believe that it is a motor winding, not the battery/ecu that is bad.