Chrysler battery-less hybrids announced

Very interesting. I hope it works out. If it increases city mpg for larger cars by 60% Chryslers larger cars would go from 16mpg to 25.6. That saves alot of fuel.

 

Years ago, I thought Ford was working on a hydraulic system for full-size and large trucks to improve their city mpg. Apparently it went no where.

 

If memory serves me, a behind the scenes EPA engineer made a hydraulic hybrid pretty much by himself around the same time that the Detroit 3 were squandering PNGV money. He tried unsuccessfully to convince an American manufacturer to adopt his design.

I would not be surprised *at all* if the patent has run out and Chrysler is trying to take advantage. They should hire him if possible, if for no other reason (like ethics) than otherwise famed Chrysler reliability is going to prevail.

I'll look for his name, he at least deserves credit where due.

 

well if you want to use your more oil......
mmm it thats not runining out........

 

Aren't they working on something like this for big rigs?

 

The embedded video on the CNN page about other ideas/tech is very interesting too.

I guess the hydraulics shouldn't too expensive but just how big would the reservoir have to be to be effective?

 

"...how big..reservoir.."

Depends on the pressure storage level.

Hydraulic motors/pumps for braking and motive force..?

Hydraulic motor/pump combinations for braking can be ASTOUNDINGLY efficient, possibility no need for frictional backup, when compared to the current electrical MG regen method. Plus which the CVT can be composed of a variable displacement hydraulic pump such as the rotating piston group pump type in common use for many years.

 

i understand someone is working on compressed air as well. pretty soon, we'll be driving for free with zero detrimental enviromental effects. i'm buying chrysler stock as we speak!

 

Err, can you? I would've thought that all Chrysler stock was canceled due to the bankruptcy. I remember the old ticker was DCX.

ABG has a bunch of hydraulic hybrid articles tagged at http://green.autoblog.com/tag/hydraulic+hybrid/.

 

you would have to still use energy/fuel to compress the air.

 

hmm, that sounds problematic. can't they drive a compressor with braking energy?

 

right, i can't find it. didn't they merge with fiat?

 

Not sure if your referral to compressed air is really different than the hydraulics we're talking about. The "Hydraulics" technology referred to in this thread must be coupled with compressed gas (air or perhaps pure nitrogen). The "hydraulics" refers to the liquid that is pumped. But you can't store any significant amount of energy in a liquid within the confines of a vehicle. Energy can be stored as an electrical charge (n/a), chemical (battery - n/a), thermal (heat the liquid - impractical), phase change (not happening), kinetic (impractical), or potential energy (bingo!). You can't store potential energy in a liquid unless you lift it a tremendous height (like a reverse hydroelectric dam). But, you can easily compress a gas a tremendous amount and store a lot of potential energy. It is more practical to pump a liquid and push it against a gas volume to compress it, than it is to use a compressor directly on the gas.

This technology has been around for at least 50 years, with many applications of hydraulic/gas-compression technology (for example, submarines - which I'm very familiar with). It likely didn't happen in automobiles due to the relative abundance of cheap gasoline for decades, coupled with international politics. The real question is how much will this technology cost when implemented in vehicles? Safety is a key parameter. It can be done, but perhaps the cost of a safe system is a roadblock. To really take advantage of the potential energy, you need to design systems capable of withstanding thousands of PSI, while not failing! This will require super strong piping systems with its own tradeoffs of weight, strength, cost. I would use titanium. Super strong, lightweight, but expensive. And the cost associated with quality assurance of the welds could also be prohibitive.

 

It doesn't necessarily require gas; anything compressible will work for storing the potential energy. Big springs would work, but gas is cheap and light.

Tom

 

Good point, but hydraulics implies the movement of a liquid under pressure. For that liquid to compress a spring would require a leak-proof piston (very difficult). Using gas to accumulate the potential energy is much simpler and does not require a leak-free piston. In fact, no piston is required. The liquid can touch the gas, taking advantage of gravity to keep them from mixing.

 

True, but then you have a diffusion issue. Generally a bladder or diaphragm is used to prevent gas/liquid contact, except for cases where the gas and liquid are continuously replaced.

As for leak-proof pistons, this is very well developed technology when it comes to hydraulics. Every piece of heavy equipment has several.

Tom

 

Oh, no --- not another hybrid with a bladder! Yikes!

 

Oh, I need to go wee!

 

EEWWW... hydraulic fluid and more moving parts! Reminds me too much of a conventional tranny. Might be fine for heavy industry, but not in my Prius. It's the clean machine!