vehicle traction control danger on prius?

the wheels dont lock, it simply disables power to the wheels ( depending on slip ) so it feels like its jerking. I noticed a problem with sensitive ABS though.

 

Yes...I bought a 2010 Prius in April 2010 used with 3000 miles on it. The original owner a Catholic Priest owned it for three months and traded it in for a VW. He told me he traded it in due to acceleration he experienced during bumpy roads. Now I wonder if he traded it in due to poor traction on snow/salt covered roads! The car handles great on dry roads but snow slush covered roads the car is dangers!! I was trying to go up a normal size main highway road which the plow truck went around me putting down salt and the Prius IV just gradually came to a stop because of the traction control system. Both wheels were spinning slightly (Information presented by the dashboard Traction Control light flashing the hole time) due to the slurry thin snow/salt mix on the road. A locale factory left out its workers and there were about forty cars which had to go around me because I could not move. The other vehicles had no problem making it up the road. My tires have about twenty thousand mile on them and the tread depth is about a ¼ of a inch deep. I cannot believe Toyota did not put a override system on the traction control system!! The car is NOT a winter car!! My girl friend has a 2010 Honda Insight which has a override system for her traction control. Even though the car doesn’t have the power to get out of its own way at least she can get up my driveway after a light snow!! I cannot!! I have driven over a million miles and this car has been the worst I have driven on slurry (snow/salt) covered roads. I’m not allowing anyone to drive this car in the winter that I love!! Toyota you need to fix this problem!!

 

Why I think the car is dangerous (Hypothetically thinking) is because if you get caught in a light snow storm and the car just stops to where you cannot move what is going to keep someone from ramming you from behind!! The car is very difficult to see from behind because snow accumulates on the rear end which covers the tail lights because of the aerodynamic design of the car plus the car is silver which is difficult to see in snowy conditions. Not able to movie on a busy high way on slippery roads is not a good situation to be in!! You never know what the other driver is going to do or react!!

 

If your tires are turning but you aren't moving, it's not a traction control problem, but a *traction* problem. Aggressive traction control cuts the power to the wheels, so they don't turn. As long as they are moving, you still have power. You need better tires.

Tom

 

Yep, I'm with Tom on this one. I hate the pre-2010 traction control because it will NOT let the wheels spin. As Tom states, your description of this particular situation sounds like a traction issue, not a traction control issue.

Zhe Wiz

 

Weird... 'cause my tires still spin a bit when the tc kicks in, just not very much. I don't have any serious traction issues , but then again I put on winter tires in the winter. The TC does still light up on really polished intersections, but I get going as well or better than everyone else on the road. Maybe different individual cars end up with slightly different sensitivities on these things.

 

Please try stopping in the middle of a somewhat steep hill in slippery conditions, then try getting up that hill. THAT is the situation which the pre 2010 can't handle. I use winter tires too, bad tires can contribute to the problem, but are not the sole problem.

I agree the Prius is an awesome winter vehicle when momentum is maintained. Lose momentum (TC won't let you keep it in certain situations) and you're in trouble. You describe the situation the Prius handles well. Please read my post here: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-main-forum/56284-unbelievably-poor-performance-snow-2.html#post755539

The owners claiming there is no problem are not talking about the same situation as those of us who realize there is a problem. There is a definite problem. I've replaced one of my 08 Priuses with a Subaru because of this problem. BOTH Priuses have a TC issue, even with Blizzaks on one and x-ices on the other.

Anyway, read my post, I think it explains the problem and why some people "see" it while others don't.

Zhe Wiz

 

Zhe Wiz,

I read your other post (you have to drive the hills around Ithaca in this weather, yikes!), though I want to nonetheless respectfully add my personal experience. I admit it's limited, since this is my first Prius, and we've only had two big snowstorms since I got it at the beginning of December, but I did take advantage of those to really test out what it felt like in those conditions.

Here were the most trying of my tests:

1. Start from 0 mph up a moderate hill in front of my house on a patch of pure ice, had no problem accelerating moderately. I repeated this on other moderate hills around the neighborhood.

2. Start from 0 mph in the middle of a very steep hill, also on untreated snow/ice combo. Here the traction control light lit up intermittently for one or two seconds at the most, but the vehicle moved and continued to the top of the hill with moderate acceleration. The power did not cut to the wheels.

3. Start from the same spot in reverse, no problem moving to the top of the hill (this was done, by the way, in front of my friend's house. He had just left in a Honda Fit, and had to go all the way to the bottom of the hill to get a head start with momentum - he couldn't get up it on multiple tries, and I did the first time).

Interestingly, yesterday I had parked on the grass before the big storm here in the northeast, and when I went to leave, the traction control lights came on AND my wheels spun at each of several attempts to accelerate. I do have a 2007, so I hear the TC was changed for this year, and indeed it seems it was, because the power was not cut at all - the tires spun for a good second each time.

Anyway, with respect to the difficulties the 2008 gave you, I've been extraordinarily pleased with my 2007's traction in the snow in what were difficult conditions (several inches of untreated snow/ice).

 

Hi knightstar...,

Its sounds like you drove into an ice patch, and got stuck. The other cars got around you, because they were not on the ice patch, and had momentum.

I would also venture to say, that you might not be familiar with the Prius accelerator pedal. Which one cannot even feel when one has boots on, till its half way down. Try to drive in snow with any car, with the gas pedal half-way down, and one is going to spin the tires and get stuck.

I use a technique where I glance sideways as I push on where I think the accelerator pedal is, to get feedback for when I am actually pushing on the gas pedal. With the engine and motors so quiet on the Prius, and actually covered up by any defroster fan noise, your not going to get the normal subconcious feedback that you are gunning the engine (drivetrain in the Prius). Invariably, the car is moving along at quite a clip for the snowy conditions, before I even realise I am pushing on the gas pedal.

Use this technique, and you can recover the momentum slowly, and gradually.

 

Thanks for reading my post...it seems most don't!

First, you have to understand that I've owned two Priuses, both 08's, both thru 3 winters each. So that's the equivalent of 6 winters, since my wife drives the other one most of the time. In those 6 winters (all with X-Ice on one, Blizzaks on the other), I've had only TWO problems. One is outlined quite well in my original post. I likely would not have made the hill with the trailer and extra weight. The second was in summer on a dry, dirt, seasonal road with summer tires. On both occasions, I was unable to be easy on the pedal, I NEEDED to be a bit more aggressive in an attempt to GAIN momentum, as keeping my existing momentum would not have allowed me to get over the increasingly steep hill. I think that's an important distinction.

I have made it up MANY hills starting from a stop at the bottom, including one I must traverse to get home every day. I think the difference is that on those hills, I can be easy on the accelerator, gain enough traction to keep enough momentum to get to the top. Though truthfully, it's EXTREMELY difficult to say my situation and yours were the same or weren't the same. WAY too many variables.

When I had trouble (the worst of which was in completely dry conditions) it was when I needed to gain momentum under less than perfect conditions and could not. On that dry, sunny day when I could not get up a relatively simple hill which was a bit rocky, I became convinced there was a problem with the system. I could NOT get the car to spin enough to get up that hill. TC would simply STOP the wheel, and if I pushed harder on the pedal, I'd get a half spin and again TC would stop it. Pressing harder did NOTHING, literally NOTHING, the car didn't move, the wheel didn't spin. Letting up on the pedal would MAYBE give me a half spin, then stop. Backing down and trying again gave me the same issue. I could not get over that hill.

Now my typical response in such a situation would be to back down the hill and get more speed. BUT, since this hill had a rather nasty corner in the middle of it, and a steep bank on each side, I couldn't do the usual or I'd have ended up over the bank.

So I recognize the Prius' poor traction control really only comes into play in limited situations: Ones like I describe above, and when one is pressing the accelerator hard to start quickly and some slippery surface - ice, snow, a painted line, gravel, a wet patch, etc must be crossed. I've learned to drive differently for the latter. I no longer "floor it", I simply press the pedal firmly and make sure I don't lose traction. "Less is more" in this situation. The former scares me, I don't want to be in a situation where I SHOULD be able to move forward, but can't due to conditions a "normal" car would have no issue with. Especially since I put myself into those situations quite frequently.

As I've said in other posts, I'm a different driver than most. My job forces me to go on seasonal roads quite frequently, and I hunt which puts me in crappy conditions often. I mistakenly thought I could get around them and save some gas with the Prius, I can't. Since I'm a two car family, I can have the best of both worlds. A small Subaru when I MUST HAVE AWD, and a Prius to save gas the rest of the time. If I didn't have that luxury, I wouldn't want to depend on a pre 2010 Prius. It really appears to me the 2010 has solved the issue. I didn't replace my 08 with a 10 mostly because of ground clearance. I need a bit more than the Prius currently provides, but partially because I NEED AWD quite often.

Anyway, I stick by my statement that all pre-2010s have the TC issue, and I believe it to be a serious one. I'm surprised Toyota hasn't addressed it on current cars. The ONLY difference is that some drivers have been in a situation where TC has been the difference between being able to make it up and over a hill or not. Others have not been in that situation...yet.

And, in fairness, I have to mention one other thing. My wife HATES driving in the snow. It scares her. She will avoid it at all costs. Having said that, she feels VERY safe in the Prius in the snow. She's driven Subarus, AWD minivans, etc. She feels safer, more confident in the Prius than she did in any of those. And I can see why too! The car's VSC/TC combo "magically" fix a lot of driver errors, and hides many road imperfections. It just has that one limited (but severe) weakness with TC being overly aggressive.

I only hope my Impreza's VSC is as good as the Prius' is. We'll soon see...

Zhe Wiz

 

Almost every other car with "traction control" has a defeat button. Except the Prius. My '04, with aggressive studded winter tires, was easily able to blow the doors off 4x4's at green lights. They would sit there spinning and their mouths open in shock

On the "all season" tires my Prius was helpless under the same conditions

The '07-'09 FJ also have TC, in 4H it works on all four wheels. Some complain about it being too sensitive, I personally have not experienced that problem but am sympathetic to it due to having an '04 Prius with hyper-sensitive "traction control"

Interestingly enough, the '10 FJ has a TC defeat button

 

Ah I think you answered your own question - wheels were turning but you were not going anywhere. Traction control is not stopping you moving lack of traction is and with 20K on OEM tires in snow up a hill not really surprised. I think you need new tires especially if there is lots of snow in your area. If you want fun try my wife's mercedes new tires or not it hates snow.

 

ACCKKKK

I just came to this forum to post a rant about NEARLY DYING due to the traction control feature on my Prius a few days ago.

I learned long ago, not to drive it if it is at all icy or snowy, because it just stops. Eventually I can kind of work my way out of the situation, but it is just not worth it.

Well, my husband had driven earlier in the morning this past week or so and said there was NO PROBLEM whatsover in his manual tranny '03 camry with nearly bald General Altimax RT all-seasons.

I drove out with my prius with nearly new Coopers GFE all-seasons and it stalled dead three times after stopping at intersections and then making a left turn. Same problem I had with my "wonderful" original Goodyear Integrity all-seasons.

Just missed being smashed to pieces by a giant Ford pickup at one of these wonderful intersections.

They recall the car for a "non-existent" accelerator problem, but do nothing about this hassle.

 

You should have tried driving my '04 Prius with "all season" tires in winter.

What finally cured it was four very aggressive studded snow tires