The good, the bad, the ugly (or my 18 months with a GIII)

I agree, a backup camera is a very good thing to buy in a Prius. I tried backing up to a car without one, forget it. I can't get within about 4 or 5 ft without thinking I'm just about going to hit.

 

I'm going to strongly disagree with the "better off with an efficient conventional car". The conventional ICE car is going also get crap mileage (almost certainly worse than the Prius) while warming up. It just may not be apparent as it may not have a trip computer that tells you mileage in intervals like Prius.

On my 350Z (which I avoid taking into stop and go traffic), due to very short city trips and a fair amount of idling, I see mileage in the 13.x-16.x mpg range.

Regarding the mirror adjustment, see Car Talk | How to Avoid the Blind Spot. I had to do this when I got my 350Z as the blind spots are HUGE on that car. I now use this technique on all the cars I drive.

As for backup camera, agreed. It's helpful. I like the fact that I have it on my 06 as well.

 

sube is a great car, but, one inch of snow? guess they should not sell pri anywhere north of the m/d line?

 

Nice review - and I believe accurate...

I had an accident (my fault - kids yelling - I was looking back), car flipped end over end (45 MPH car is low - in rain, hit low median - toppled, turned - landed upside down).

4 kids and me. All kids safe, I got 2nd degree burns (airbag), looking at the accident, you'd think people were killed...

Insurance (after a month of back and forth) came in above my purchase + additions (leather etc).

I have much respect for airbags (they all blew), and the car's safety in general.

Bought another Prius the day the check came in.

Went skiing last week at Mammoth (3' snow + ice), was very glad I took the 4wd SUV - saw one Gen III parked (under 2" of snow) - was very glad I didn't drive the thing (yes - I have chains for it).

It's all relative....

 

My wife & I have not had any problems in the snow. We live much farther north of the OP.

 

I live in Binghamton! Been here since '77.

I had an 05 Legacy GT that came with summer tires. It would not go in the snow. Our Prius's go better even with OEM tires. If I had it my way, I wouldn't get traction control on any FWD car, it's useless. Now on my trans am......it's very handy but still not required!

To each their own in the end.

 

I doubt your last statement. Do you have any independent tests that show multiple conventional ICE cars (currently sold or sold during the same time frame as the 2nd or 3rd gen Prius) getting just as good mileage than the Prius in such conditions?

At least on the 2nd gen Prius, the ICE can shut down well before coolant temp reaches 145 F which to me is WAY before it's warmed up. It also can recapture and re-purpose some kinetic energy that'd otherwise be lost as heat and brake dust. After driving a long time, coolant temp is usually at 17x - 18x degrees F.

Unfortunately, I don't know of published mileage tests which are just 10 minute drives but if you look at Best & worst cars review, best city/highway mpg and the best city mileages, out of the 10 listed, the 3rd gen Prius is on top (2nd gen got 35 mpg in the CR city test), 2 gasoline non-hybrids and two TDIs. Of the 4, 3 have manuals and 1 has a crappy manumactic/automated manual transmission. The last page of http://www.consumersunion.org/Oct_CR_Fuel_Economy.pdf briefly talks about their city test.

 

Huh ? Does the Prius change the law of physics as well ?

Of course , the bigger ICE in the Subaru will warm the cabin faster.

 

How high was the median to flip a vehicle at 45mph ?

 

I'm not trying to tell you it's a bad choice, I'm not a Prius Evangelical. We're just having a discussion here.

My hypothesis is that it's all relative. Nether one is reaching their peak efficiency on that short commute, so I'm guessing that if they both hit 70% efficiency the Prius is still going to be delivering more mpg over that span. I could certainly be wrong.

My previous vehicle, with it's 4.7L V8 gave me warm cabin air at pretty much the same landmark on my commute as the Prius does.

 

Hey Coach!

Got any of that popcorn left?

 

Hi tp..,

Last time I checked, the thermal mass of a bigger engine is more than a smaller engine. And since warming implies a difference in temperature, the goal is to get the engine water temp to a higher heat the quickest. So, the smaller engine will warm the cabin faster, as it will get hotter faster, while providing the same power output profile. And being hotter faster, it will transfer more heat to the cabin faster.

And then, the 2010 Prius has the heat recovery system, which puts it in a league of its own in cabin warm-up speed....

 

The Atkinson engine in the Prius is designed for efficiency, therefore for the same amount of fuel, less energy is generated as heat.
Combine this fact with the tiny engine in the Prius, you are talking about a 200% difference between the Prius and the Subaru in heat generation.
Both models use about 7qt of coolant so the thermal masses are comparable.

 

It takes a long time to heat up that 15qt of coolant. Water has 10X the heat capacity of iron.

 

Hi tpfun,

Thanks for the clarification of your comment. SO, your original comment about engine size was worng. And you believe Suburu engine does heat up the cabin faster, as its wastes the fuel energy more readily. Even though the Suburu engine has to heat up SO MUCH more aluminum and coolant , is so much more wasteful, that you believe it heats up the cabin faster.

I do not have experience with a Suburu, but a 3rd Gen Prius warms up the cabin very quick. Its recovering the exhaust gas heat as well as the block heat both.

An Otto engine is typically 12 % efficient at low power (low speed warmup driving), leaving 88 % of the heat as waste. If I remember right, its 80 % of the waste heat going out the exhuast and 20 % into the coolant. So, of the .88 times .20 gives 17.6% of the fuel energy into the coolant.

The Prius engine is like 25 % efficient at low power (Argonne National Labs Tests). The coolant energy is then .75 times .20 or 10 % of fuel energy. Say the 3rd Gen Prius exhaust heat recovery is 50 % efficient, an not unreasonable efficiency for a heat exchanger. So, that means the energy recoverd in the exhaust is .75 times .80 or 60 % of fuel burned energy. So, the total energy available in the 3rd Gen Prius coolant availabile for heating the cabin is 10 + 60, or 70 % of fuel burned energy.

Now as you say the Prius is allot more effienct. So, we can assume the Prius burns half the fuel during this warm up period as the Suburu. .5 times .7 is 35 % of the fuel burned in the Suburu, available as heat in the Prius coolant.

Last time I checked, 35% is about twice 17.6 % . The 3rd Generation Prius should heat up twice as fast as a Suburu.

This might be why the Finish car magazine picked the 3rd Gen Prius as one of the top three winter cars for 2010.