2010 prius, 31 mpg, Toyota doesn't care

Well, I commiserate with the OP. I know that gas mileage has a high degree of operator variables involved in it's existence. BUT...a drop to 31 mpg whether calculated with perfect accuracy or not, is still alarming.

And I default to the philosophy that service departments and Toyota in support of their own products should be as supportive of them as possible. The fact that an owner "feels" Toyota doesn't care...should be troubling to Toyota.

It's NOT just Toyota, I got a similar "vibe" from my local Honda dealership when after I was involved in a rear end accident, I requested they check my vehicle. The reaction was very much...No Code? You don't have a problem......

I know they can't guarantee mpg..BUT it is true especially with Prius that Toyota markets and sells very much with the Hybrid MPG estimates as a influencer and tool. When an owner of a brand new Prius, says my MPG has dropped by 10+ MPG...and they respond primarily with "We don't Guarantee MPG...." I personally find that disappointing.

Even if the ultimate resolution was to turn out to be that nothing could be done..or should be done...and it IS simply driving style and enviromental conditions..The Toyota service department should be supportive illuminating this reality and not dismissive and/or unhelpful.

 

Sure it does. That's partly responsible for the your substantial drop in mileage. See Why does mileage drop in winter? — Autoblog Green.

Heater use can be too, as it can cause the ICE to unnecessarily run as it can run to supply cabin heat if you have the heat above LO and fan above off. I posted a hint about heater use at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...937-poor-winter-fuel-economy.html#post1215787.

I have no idea what what city you live in but from http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/tenday/USVT0147, I see a forecast of 3 F for a low and 13 F for a high on 12/27.

Your weather is nowhere near the same as in June. There's a reason why I wrote the questionnaire I cited at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...us-31-mpg-toyota-doesnt-care.html#post1223988. We're taking a lot of guesses until you answer the questions. It's not productive for you nor the people trying to help.

What is "ok"? What does "started fine" have to do with it? The 12 volt doesn't start the ICE on a Prius. Many folks have bizarro behavior and "poor mileage" when their 12 V is reading way below 12 V. Again, your temps are now way cold with it being below zero.

Of course not. Your driving is not equivalent to EPA tests. For more info about them, read http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...uth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.html.

I've seen people driving so poorly that they're either riding the brakes or their brake lights are malfunctioning. Example: I was heading up a hill towards a traffic light and some guy (in a non-hbyrid) in another lane had his brake lights on almost the entire time, including while he was accelerating. His brake lights only intermittently flickered off. I'll bet he was getting crap mileage and prematurely wearing out his brakes.

Yep, please do so.

 

I'm having a similar experience. I just took a 900 mile trip and according to the dashboard I got ~36 MPG over the course of 3 days. It was a real disappointment when the window sticker said it gets 48 to 50 mpg. Two reasons I bought this car was because of MPG and I was told the Toyota service is great. So, I brought it into the dealership and they said there's nothing they can (or would) do about it. Blamed it on the cold weather and the fact that it's a 2010 and it needs to break in. Can you believe this? I'm getting 25% less than they advertised on the window and the only help I get is 'it's cold'??? This will be my last Toyota. Only thing I can do is live with it because the bluebook would kill me if I resold it. I wonder how many people I can talk to about how Toyota won't live up to their word over the next 3 years?

 

Why do you expect 50 mpg? Please read http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...uth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.html.

What did you get on your previous car in the exact same conditions?

Please fill out http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...-answer-these-questions-esp-if-youre-new.html if you want mileage help. We don't have enough info to go on other than knowing the weather's cold and there are many things you should check.

Please see http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...ileage-in-mid-west-winters-2.html#post1216266 on why mileage drops when it's cold.

What would you buy instead? There are currently no mass market gasoline or diesel fueled cars sold as in new in the US that has better mileage. You can see what CR got on their tests at http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/most-fuelefficient-cars-206/index.htm.

 

The US government is responsible for the mileage sticker on every car sold in America. It is really there for comparison sake, as they use standardized testing.

-Brad

 

Go to Toyota.com. It estimates 48 to 51. Silly me for not reading the small print.

 

Wow, I'd hate to ask what you were getting in you previous vehicle. Actually, your mileage is not hard to get if driven aggressively enough. My first question is where your trip occurred and how fast did you drive? Also how many people and weight of luggage? Would you rather the dealer perform an extensive diagnostic look and come up with nothing, then charge you for it? I bet you would be upset with that too. I stand by the belief that short of an out of tune or malfunctioning engine, the mileage people get in their autos are the results of their driving habits.

 

Again, please read http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...uth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.html.

Also, see http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/why_differ.shtml. It's been stated many times here that the EPA numbers are the only ones that car makers can legally advertise. (I've seen VW try to advertise other numbers in online ads from some of their TDI models, which to me sounds illegal or at least, borderline illegal.)

 

I have a 2007 Nissan Altima that I paid $10k less for. I regularily get 30 mpg on the same trip with more luggage and people in the car. For the difference in price I can buy a lot of fuel and the not have the environmental impact of building and disposing of batteries. There's suppose to be a payoff. I bought a 2010 Ford F250 because I need to haul a 14,000 lb trailer. Ford told me it would and it does. I have a 2000 corvette that will snap your head off going from 0 to 60 because that's what it's suppose to do. Now I have a hybrid that doesn't do what it's suppose to do. What a waste. And yes, for a $32k price tag, I expect the dealer to at least put it on a diagnostic check and tell me everything is working the way it's suppose to.

 

Why is there "suppose to be a payoff"?

Please answer the questionnaire. We're in the dark w/o more info.

I do question your 30 mpg on your Altima and whether it was in the exact same weather conditions and the same exact trip/commute. CR on their testing (with a 4-cylinder 07 2.5 S) got 18 city/33 highway, 25 mpg overall. Are you basing your # on a trip computer? They did get 30 mpg on a 150 mile trip. I can't speak to how accurate the Altima's trip computer is but my 02 Maxima's trip computer was usually 2-3 mpg too high vs. actual.

 

If you don't believe my numbers than the point is mute, no use wasting my or your time. Regarding the questionnaire, I did review it and of course there are items to be considered, like the fact that I live in the midwest and I have to use the heater. From now on I'll go downhill during nice weather, thank you for the advise.

Can't you see that it's frustrating that most entries indicate people are getting the 48 to 50 mpg and I'm not? I know not all driving habits are the same, but their not consistently 25% less when you go on the interstate and set the cruise at 70 for 14 hours!

I just want Toyota to look at it and don't know where to turn. Sure, I can put a sail on top the thing and get better MPG, but that's not the point.

I'm not looking for a pat on the back and 'of course you're going to get terrible MPG because you're Irish.'

 

I sure can believe it. When my Subaru came up far short of its EPA sticker, the dealership gave me far more excuses why, all lame. They didn't mention the real reasons.

When I finally learned how to drive it for EPA, it significantly surpassed the sticker.

Please fill out the questionaire that cwerdna keeps pointing to. Then we can critique it and point you to other postings here and elsewhere about how to drive for high mpg. It is not automatic or intuitive.

Cold and foul weather have major impacts on mpg. Your best results won't happen until spring, possibly late spring.

 

I have good news, which is that I did something very similar many times over several years in my '07. (Specifically, I drove on 70mph roads at the PSL for ~6-7 hours straight as part of a 14 hour total journey.) Better, I have a spreadsheet in front of me with all of the FE numbers.

In warm, dry weather my best fuel economy on that stretch was 53mpg. I probably did that one in the morning with relatively little traffic to slow me down or otherwise keep me from doing anything besides cruise at 70. Looking down the list I see that my worst attempt at the same section of highway was 40mpg. I remember that trip (exactly a year ago) and recall that it was much colder and the weather was terrible. My second worst was 42mpg, which would have been in better weather but it was also very cold (in the 20s F). Throwing out the bad weather number (since I probably drove slower) that's still a 21% difference from best to worst. Throw in a nasty headwind or crosswind and/or even colder temperatures and I bet you could get that delta well past 25%. Throw in low (read: "door placard") tire pressure and it will get even worse.

I don't like it, either, but getting mad at physics is unproductive. The car is more efficient than just about anything you can buy in the US but Toyota can't possibly make it immune to conditions that harm fuel economy. If your driving conditions and habits are much harsher than the EPA test cycle, your fuel economy numbers will show it. You would do much better to make your peace with it and learn what an operator can do to turn things around.

 

Thanks for the kind words and advice. I have to say I'm not nearly as disappointed in the actual performance as I am with my expectations of Toyota. When I recently purchased my three quarter ton Ford I asked the MPG because estimates aren't advertised (they varry too much by user and use), they laughed and said I shouldn't ask. They were very honest about eveything throughout the sale. I now get a phenominal 13 mpg with my truck and I'm tickled because my expectations were much lower...it's the cost of my business. When working with Toyota, there was no indication that there would be such a drastic varriation in MPG. No one ever said 'you could see a 25 to 35% decrease in MPG depending on conditions. When I was told afterwards that my MPG would go down significantly because of the cold my first question was why would anyone not think you're going to use the car anywhere but California where the weather is perfect? When I went on-line it seemed like everyone has been getting great MPG. We've never seen anything over low 40s. Then, when asking for help from Toyota they basically laughed at me.

 

If you are averaging low 40s then you are closer to a 15% drop from EPA average, not 25%-35%.

Keep in mind that all vehicles drop mpg by 10%-20% in the winter.

If your Prius and your truck both drop by say 15% you still come out WAAAY ahead in terms of money saved vs. the truck. Don't get caugh up in the numbers game.

Truck (2mpg loss)
20,000miles / 13mpg = $4615
20,000miles / 11mpg = $5454
Difference = $839

Prius (8mpg loss)
20,000miles / 50mpg = $1200
20,000miles /42mpg = $1428
Difference = $228

*Assuming 15% drop in mpg in winter and fuel at $3/ga.

 

Rose and/or Louie,

It is very difficult to read your reduced MPG rant with any sympathy.
I suspect that I am not alone.

Those who have ben through a winter or two or... know what to expect,
and we accept the cold weather MPG reductions as part of the Prius
package.

EPA estimates come from driving a specific regime on a controlled
course. They don't even represent the real world. Their only merits are
that they are repeatable, and are valid ONLY for comparison with other
vehicles so tested. They are not guarantees.

There are folks here who report phenomenal MPGs, regularly getting
60's and even 70's MPGs for whole tanks. They get the numbers
because they are lucky AND they work hard at it. Lucky because they
commute on flat terrain an roads with 35-40 MPH speed limits, few
stop lights/signs, little other traffic, and air temps between 65-80 degF.
Further they work at it by having additional gauging and reading a lot
to understand the peculiarities of the HSD and the even-yet not fully
documented or understood control algorithms. AND they use
mechanical enhancements like block heaters and grill blocking in the
winter. (For the record, I am not one of these lucky folks. I'm just a
pretty good miler, not a hypermiler. And the earth still goes 'round
the sun.)

So, just what is it that you are doing that gives you any reason to
believe you should do as well?

Heck, for that matter, what are you doing just to maintain your warm
weather MPGs whatever they are?

Your bringing up steady summer/winter MPGs in an Altima and F-150 is
literally and logically backwards. Both those vehicles waste gallons and
gallons of fuel in the warm months turning gas into wasted heat, and
their MPGs reflect it. In the winter they continue to turn gas into heat,
but to some extent it's no longer wasted, it keeps the mechanical
equipment up to temps and warms the passenger cabin. The point is
both vehicles are wasting huge amounts of gas the rest of the time.
And you accept that without complaint.

Amazing, simply amazing.

 

I have trouble believing it but at the same time, we know little to nothing about your drive(s). If you told me you do 5 minute drives in the city w/your non-hybrid 07 Altima and get 30 mpg, I'd call total BS. If it's a steady 60 mph drive for 60 miles in the summer, then I'd believe it and would characterize 36 mpg on a Prius in the exact same conditions as very poor and we'd all agree that something's wrong. This is why we need to know.

We have no idea about the driving conditions and trip lengths of their people getting "48 to 50 mpg" but I suspect most weren't in cold NE winters. John1701a posted his mileage graph at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...-mileage-in-mid-west-winters.html#post1215317.

Besides that, we have no idea what your tire pressures are, whether you've changed the tires, whether your 12 V battery is low, how you're driving (for all we know you're using B mode), etc. Again, this is why I'm asking for you to give us info. I've grown tired of spending the time to asking the same questions over and over each time someone has a mileage complaint, hence the questionnaire.

Once you've ensured you're at least at door sticker tire pressures and have proper oil level, with a warmed up engine, take the Prius onto the highway, reset the trip computer and do a steady drive at say 60-65 mph w/cruise control for 5+ minutes. Tell us temperatures at the beginning and end |+ the mileage at the end. You can them compare w/others, esp. at similar temps.

Agreed on both of the above.

If it's not listed on the window sticker, it's very likely the above Ford truck is EXEMPT from fuel economy testing. Per Which Vehicles Are Tested, vehicles w/GVWR >8500 lbs. prior to 2011 are exempt.

 

You mean an F250? An EPA MPG for this vehicle doesn't exist, because the vehicle is exempt.

I'm seeing various F250s having GVWRs ranging from 8800 to 10000 pounds, so they will remain exempt even under the new rules.

 

Here's an average consumer asking very reasonable questions as to why the Prius' real world MPG is so different from what's posted on the sticker, and what Toyota the corporation is obligated to do about it. Does false advertisement apply here ?

Apparently, she has been driven off the site by the regulars, hardly surprising and hardly the first time this has happened to newbies who dare question Toyota's infallibility.

Reading her posts, I believe she said .....
on a similar long distance drive, the Altima gets close to the highway EPA (30mpg) numbers but the Prius doesn't.

 

I thought the new rules had increased the GVWR to 10,000lb (which , incidentally, is a standard registration class limit here in Maine).

Crap.