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More on Regeneration in EV mode

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by giora, Sep 3, 2010.

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  1. Snake

    Snake New Member

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    Hey! That's a good point. It would also make those out of warranty have an easier time replacing missing parts... but I think either way Toyota wins.
     
    #21 Snake, Dec 2, 2010
  2. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Please refer to the following official numbers.
    TOYOTA: News Releases > TMC Introduces 'Prius Plug-in Hybrid' into Key Markets
    battery capacity: 5.2 kWh
    battery consumption: 3.56 kWh

    Then, it uses 68% window.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #22 ken1784, Dec 2, 2010
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  3. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    FYI, I was able to get the whole page with the specs. Interesting read!
     

    Attached Files:

    #23 pEEf, Dec 2, 2010
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  4. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    "Battery charging power consumption" of 3.56kWh is, I assume, what you get on your electicity bill, allowing for 10-12% charging losses you get to my numbers.
    60% or 68% does not matter, what matters is that Toyota feels confident enough with the Lithium-ion battery to increase the window considerably.

    Giora.
     
    #24 giora, Dec 3, 2010
  5. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    I don't know how the charging loss was affected, but Toyota specification says as follows;
    Electricity efficiency: 6.57 km/kWh
    Electric vehicle mode cruising range: 23.4 km

    It consumes exactly 3.56 kWh for the 23.4 km drive.
    It is still exactly 68% window.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #25 ken1784, Dec 3, 2010
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  6. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Sorry Ken, you have not convinced me...

    The "Electricity efficiency" of 6.57 km/kWh means that (under Japan test cycle) you invest 1 kWh and get 6.57 km. This investment must include charging losses, any other presentation of data will be misleading.
    One can argue whether charging losses are 8% or 12% and we do not know exactly, we do know that charging process is not perfect and has losses.

    Giora.
     
    #26 giora, Dec 4, 2010
  7. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    I can read...
    Drive battery Capacity: 5.2 kWh
    Electricity efficiency: 6.57 km/kWh
    Electric vehicle mode cruising range: 23.4 km

    23.4 / 6.57 = 3.56 kWh consumption
    3.56 / 5.2 = 0.68

    That's all where I can read.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #27 ken1784, Dec 6, 2010
  8. matrix_uam

    matrix_uam Junior Member

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    I think we should analized PHV as part of a new technology research program and not as a market version.

    For those who think that one pack regeneration capability is not enough you should see how larger are these packs vs Prius III packs are. How long we should drive dowhill in order to get a full charged pack by regenerating energy?? I think that in almost 99.9% situations it´s impossible.

    We have to realize that regeneration capabilities are small. We will need more than a hour to get full charged packs by plug-in in order to drive a max. 20kms so by regenerating maybe 4 hours driving downhill..??

    In my opinion the new larger main pack it´s more than enough to increase regeneration capabilities in this car.

    Sorry, I know I should improved my writting english skills
     
    #28 matrix_uam, Dec 8, 2010
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  9. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    I think you greatly underestimate the regen capabilities of your Prius.
    As far as I recall, regen is limited by the battery (about 90-100A if I am not mistaken) MG2 as a generator can supply more.
    Twice a week, I am going downhill (850m elevation difference) with my Prius gen3, starting with two bars on the battery meter I find myself with "full" 8 bars half way down and go to "B" mode rest of the downhill drive to minimize friction braking.

    Giora.
     
    #29 giora, Dec 8, 2010
  10. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    Regen is limited to about ~20kw due to the hardware limitations of the boost converter. Any more than this would also likely result in high loss in the battery (and thus high heat).

    MG2 could generate about 50kw without any problems however, but there's no where to put it.

    The question is, did they upgrade the boost converter in the PHEV? If they did, which would be sensible to allow better EV mode acceleration, then regen would technically be enhanced to similar levels if they wished to allow it.
     
    #30 pEEf, Dec 8, 2010
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  11. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    It is Gen2 number, and the Gen3 has more capability.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #31 ken1784, Dec 9, 2010
  12. masini

    masini New Member

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    It is true but for now, Gen 2 it is good for us. That is only my opinion.
     
    #32 masini, Dec 9, 2010
  13. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    Ken, do you know what the Gen III can do? (kW)
     
    #33 pEEf, Dec 9, 2010
  14. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    I don't have regen (charge) number, but the discharge number is 25kW on Gen2 and 27kW on Gen3.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #34 ken1784, Dec 9, 2010
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  15. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    #35 telmo744, Dec 9, 2010
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  16. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    Yes, you can peak numbers like that, but the average maximum is about 20kw. (gen II)

    You wouldn't be able to sustain much more than that without popping your 125a battery fuse in any event, so that is your ultimate limitation.
     
    #36 pEEf, Dec 9, 2010
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