Should I buy a Prius?

Ruth,

Just to comment on highway travel in the Prius, my commute is 35 miles each way. I'll spend about 3 miles of it in stop and go traffic, the rest of the time I'm usually around 60 mph. Overall, I'm averaging 59+ mpg from April to present. I expect my MPG's will decrease as cool weather comes and wet weather comes. I fully expect my 12 month average to be in the 58 mpg range. Likely, Utah's weather will be a bit more extreme (temperature wise) and likely the speeds your husband will travel will exceed my freeway speeds, but 48 - 50 mpg should be doable.

The car can seat 4 adults comfortably. The view out the rear passenger window is partially obscured by head rests (and the general car design), thus you need to make sure you've adjusted your mirrors accordingly. If you do get a Gen II (2004 - 2009) read up on the Fuel Bladder in the gas tank as well as the HID problems people have had. To save you some reading, with the bladder, you never really KNOW how much gasoline is in the tank, just fill up with 2 "pips" on the fuel gauge and you will be fine. The latter (HID headlights) people have had issues with the light prematurely flickering/burning out. They are expensive to replace.

I love my car.

 

Agree w/most of the other advice provided by others here.

Per http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...uld-you-buy-that-car-again/overview/index.htm,

As a note, yes, some people have had HID headlight problems (optional on the 04-09s, unavailable on 2010s since the choices on the 3rd gen are halogens or LED headlights). My HIDs are fine. HIDs being expensive to replace isn't Toyota specific but some have complained that the bumper needs to be removed (not true), leading to high labor costs by some ripoff dealers. The HIDs can definitely be replaced w/o bumper removal (demo at Luscious Garage | Blog | Prius headlight problem, D4R HID bulbs *still overpriced, not covered under warranty*).

Back to MFDs, http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...bleshooting/33923-mfd-issues-04-05-prius.html is the thread on that. http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/mfd/ is an analysis of the failure on those.

Fuel bladder yields to varying fuel capacity and being unsure how much gas you really have in the tank. It's only on the 04-09s and has been ditched on the 2010.

Some other negatives:
- If you are looking for a luxury car in terms of interior quality, amenities, soft ride and quietness, the Prius isn't for you.
- If you are looking for sports car-like power, handling and braking, the Prius isn't for you. It's adequate in all these departments and I've taken my 06 on >860 mile road trips, one way or >1000 miles round trip, almost all highway.
- You might find 4 cylinder engines to be not great in the noise, harshness and vibration POV if you're used to 6 cylinder and above engines in non-sports cars.
- Mileage hit in very cold weather seems to be somewhat more than non-hybrids but you will still get far better mileage than any non-hybrid gasoline powered car.
- Smart keys are expensive to replace and reprogram, so don't lose them. This isn't Prius specific.

 

Hi Ruth! :welcome:

Our Prius has about 75,000 miles on it so far. I've used it extensively to commute between 50 and 112 miles per day, since we bought it.

Our Prius has NEVER met a mechanic. Granted, ours is a Gen II, which makes it easier for us to change our own oil, but other than regular oil changes and tire rotations, we've had no work done on it at all.

At this point, I really SHOULD take it in for an alignment, and to get the PCV valve changed, along with some fluid checking/maybe changing, but that's pretty standard with ANY vehicle, and costs about the same.

My main point, is this car is the first car that I've gotten this many miles without something going wrong.

Your husband's commute sounds perfect for a Prius. I'd suggest not paying extra for the bells and whistles (Nav, etc.)... go for a more basic package.

 

C'mon...admit it. You don't REALLY love it when I compare it with subcompacts DO YOU?
Just to set the record straight, the EPA does indeed say that the Prius IS A MIDSIZED CAR. (happy?)
The EPA "classifies" cars by bean carrying capacity (human and other beans)---or interior volume. I compare the Prius to compacts in terms of other things like wheelbase, exterior dimensions, and interior appointments, and this is not done in malice (I drive one too) but to compare the car as a whole as I see it. Midsize cars would include cars like the Mazda 5, the Altima, Some Beamers and Infinitys etc...the comparison with which would leave our hero somewhat wanting. I believe I said it will do just about anything any other compact car will do, and it does so better than most.
Consumer Reports does not classify the Prius as a midsize either---not because they want to piss off Prius Drivers, although any excuse will obviously do...but because they do the stare and compare thing with cars based on their own standards...just like me. They just do it a lot better than I do. (EDIT: I may be off on this too if they were talking about the GEN-2 models, so please keep your fingers outside the trigger guards!)
One thing that you, and I, and Consumer Reports, and just about all other "professional" reviewers agree upon is that the Prius is a well-executed car.
But it does have its little faults, as I and others have illustrated herein...actually...I tried to be malice-free, since the car isn't built for:
Big People.
Poor People.
Sports Car People.
People with trailers.
People who like luxury vehicles.
People who fear getting into horrible accidents (yes...it has a 5*/4* rating...but C'mon!!! Are you REALLY saying it's as SAFE as a large car???)
If there's a car out there ANYWHERE that satisfies all of those people, and gets good gas mileage for even 3 times the base price of a Prius---I'll buy one!!!

Peace!

 

In the United States, the term "compact car" or "subcompact car" carries a negative connotation. While some may refer to it as a car size, many advertisers have taken the position that you have compact cars and real (luxury/sports/whatever) cars. This is done to try to get people into cars with bigger profit margins for the vehicle manufacturers.

When you were comparing the Prius to a compact car, it wasn't obvious that you were comparing it by size. The assumption (and I made the same assumption) was that you were comparing it to smaller cars without "luxury" appointments (ie not a "real" car).

It may not be fair, but comparing something that isn't a compact car to a compact car will be assumed to be a put down/criticism.

You have valid points as to who doesn't like a Prius

Big People.
Poor People.
Sports Car People.
People with trailers.

I'd disagree with the final two. The car has its own luxury features and features typcially found on cars much more expensive than the price range for a Prius. The safety tests are standardized (and there are numerous threads where force, mass, acceleration in regards to impacts have been analyzed and opined to death by the engineers here).

 

I'll meet you half way on the options. If you get a $32K "V", it does have some features found in cars of this price range, and I understand fully (and without malice) that the "small car feel" that such an otherwise opulently appointed car displays is due to compromises made necessary to get 50+ MPG out here in the "real world".
I'm not going to budge on the safety point until somebody repeals the laws of physics or gives me another interpretation of F=MA.
Sorry man, but if I get to pick my vehicle in a "me versus them", I'm gonna go with my Sierra.
I do not think I'm alone in this prejudice---one of my co-workers was telling me today that "that thing is a death trap!"
Like most Prius drivers, I launched into a hasty defense of our little hero.
Unlike some, I kept my tone civil.

(he remains unconvinced...)

Peace.

 

And yet Bob Wilson has data that indicates the Prius has 1/2 the average fatalities per mile as the US fleet in general. I claim it is because Prius drivers are not racing their Prius, they can't find enough Smart cars to be faster than.

 

I agree completely (and I love the way you put that! )
But you can't quantify fear.
Statistically, you're MUCH safer flying in a commercial airliner than you ever will be any car, but I avoid flying like the government avoids being debt/deficit-free, and I submit that comparing fleet fatalities per mile statistics do not quantify your chances of surviving an accident already in progress.
Priuses (like commercial airliners) take the wise strategy of avoiding accidents---and with its traction control, ABS, diminutive performance characteristics, and the adult nature of most of the operators ("drafters" and fanatics notwithstanding) you ARE more likely to avoid an accident.
Like an airliner (however) if you DO get into an accident...it could "go ugly early", with apologies to Mr. Carville. This is why even a Chevy Aveo has multiple airbags, side impact beams, crumple zones, etc...
I also drive a full sized truck, which (perhaps illogically) means that if I collide with small car, I'm probably going to wind up on top figuratively if not literally. It may not be "fair", but that's just physics for you.
Some people are just NOT going to feel comfortable in a small car, or on an airliner...statistics be darned.

 

I agree about the size. I just bought a 2010 Prius after 8 years driving a Focus ZX3 (I have an 80 mile r/t commute). I was looking for more mpg, comfort, and safety. Got all that. It is remarkably roomy, it has a solid mid-size driving feel and comfort while not being a stodgy family sedan.

 

I test-sat a Saturn before we got our Prius -- I find the Prius much more comfy and roomy.
High winds - I'm a huge fan of good tires, and good alignment. If it feels "funny", get that checked.
Temperature affects MPG in all vehicles. You just notice it more when you are playing the MPG "game"... For us, driving in freezing and really cold weather might pull it down by about 5 MPG. Short trips do the worst to MPG, but that's common with all vehicles... just more noticeable on a Prius.

 

Temperature will affect all vehicles in terms of mileage, You may take a bigger ding in MPG with a Prius, but I'm thinking that in your situation it won't be a deal maker or deal buster.
If 5 MPG skews the math for your purchase decision that much, then you may want to keep the car that you now have for another year and put more money down in 2011. Hard to say.

Even though the steering is a little twitchier in this car than other "mid-sized" [sic] cars I've driven, the extra 100 kilos in battery weight in the rear will probably make it more stable than your husband's SL2 in high winds. From a safety standpoint this car also has traction control, and better air bags than the SL2. It also has 4-wheel disc brakes with ABS. I don't remember whether or not the SL2 came with ABS.
I drove an ION for about a year, and the Prius is comparable in size. It might be a little larger than your SL2---I can't remember the numbers. You're going to have to test drive the car to see if it's a "good fit."

Some people LOVE this car. Others (co-workers that I've allowed to test-drive mine) wouldn't drive one if they were GIVEN a Prius for free (they say.)
Personally, I think it's a very good commuting car.

 

"Upkeep" and "maintenance" generally refer to regularly scheduled maintenance and/or replacement of parts that are expected to wear out before the warranty period has expired. (oil, tires, break pads, 12V battery, etc) On this matter you'll find that break pads are likely to last longer than other cars. Most everything else is not much different than any similarly priced car. As for price for replacement, the 12V battery and the HID headlights, if you get a car with that option, are a bit more expensive than their traditional counterparts.

"Repairs" on the other hand would be unexpected and uncommon failures of parts out of warranty, or uninsured damage to the vehicle. Obviously the likelihood of you requiring a repair is difficult to predict. Generally, as with any other vehicle, the older the used vehicle you purchase the higher the chance that you'll have to pay for a repair. As has been pointed out, if you end up needing a repair, there are some parts unique to this vehicle (Multi-Function Display, Traction Battery, DC/DC converter, computers, electric motor/generators). These parts are unlikely to fail, and depending on the age and mileage of the car you purchase may be covered under warranty. However if they do fail out of warranty they would be considered by most people to be expensive to replace.

It is also worth being aware of the fact that there are parts that commonly fail out of warranty on other vehicles that either don't exist on the Prius, such as an alternator, or that are of a much more simple design and are far less likely to fail on the Prius than other vehicles, such as the transmission.

As for my personal experience with maintenance and repairs, with nearly 5 years and over 80,000 miles on my vehicle I have paid for:

The initial purchase of the vehicle.
The oil changed every 5,000 miles.
The tires replaced once.
The transmission fluid replaced once.
Fuel as needed.
Washing the vehicle when it looks dirty.
Insurance and taxes.

That's it. I haven't had any failures of any parts in or out of warranty. I haven't needed to replace the 12V battery yet (although I'll probably replace it soon rather than waiting for it to fail).

I can't say with certainty that you won't need more maintenance or repairs than I have, but I don't believe that there is anything unusual about my experience with the vehicle. I suspect that my list of costs is probably typical of most Prius owners.

 

1 - I've never been in a Saturn SL2, so I really can't say. I'm not excited about the comfort in the drivers seat, but I find it acceptable. If you poke around PriusChat enough you'll find there are some who do not feel that the seats are acceptably comfortable. You'll definitely want to test drive a Prius to be sure that the interior size and comfort are acceptable to both yourself and your husband. Even better if you can rent or borrow one for a few days. Because of the hatchback and the fact that the seats all fold down, it can be surprising in what it can carry. While I did need to move the driver seat uncomfortably far forward, I managed to drive 40 miles home with a twin size box spring in the back and the hatch fully closed.

2 - Tail winds are GREAT! The MPG go WAY up with a good tail wind. Headwinds will hurt MPG, but because the Prius is so aerodynamically shaped it will reduce MPG less than it would any similar sized vehicle. I personally find that crosswinds are more noticeable than in other similar sized vehicles I've driven. It is more stable in crosswinds than any truck, SUV, van, or mini-van that I've ever driven, and I've never felt it was unsafe even in the heaviest Chicago area winds, but when compared to my experience with other mid-size or compact cars I do notice it more.

3 - Warmer temperatures will reduce MPG in any vehicle if you run the A/C, but the Prius A/C is pretty high-tech compared to similarly priced vehicles and as such it doesn't hurt MPG nearly as much. All vehicles have lower MPG when driving through snow or rain, and with cooler temperatures. The temperature where it "starts to affect it" (like with all vehicles) is the temperature where you start/stop using the A/C. Most of the cool temperature related loss of MPG in all vehicles comes from heating the engine to its operating temperature. The cooler the ambient temperature the more fuel that is burned while the engine is warming up. Also, in all vehicles, lots of short trips will bring down your MPG since the vehicle has to bring the engine back up to operating temperature each time.

Specific to the Pruis (and other vehicles that stop the engine when not needed), cooler temperatures can reduce MPG when driving at speeds where the engine can be stopped (below 42 MPH in the Gen II Prius), because it will need to turn the engine on more often to keep it at operating temperature. I'm not certain how much MPG is lost for a given temperature change, but we get some pretty cold winters here in Chicago, and I've never seen a tank with less than 40 MPG. Even so, my annual average is over 50MPG. I suppose others with shorter trips, slower speeds, and/or colder temperatures may have seen worse.

If you are really concerned about the effects of cool temperatures on MPG, many members of PriusChat have installed an Engine Block Heater in their Prius. It is a small electric heating element that screws into a hole on the bottom of the engine and has a cord you can run to the grill. Assuming you keep the vehicle somewhere near an electrical outlet, you can run an extension cord to the vehicle and turn the power on to the heater an hour or two before you plan to leave (commuters often plug the cord into a timer to turn the power on a couple hours before the time they typically leave for work.) This uses electricity to get the engine closer to its operating temperature reducing the time it takes to get the engine warmed up after you start the vehicle. Your electric usage will increase a bit, but you gasoline use will drop. In most cases the savings in gasoline is greater than the cost in electricity, and depending on how your local power is generated, it is generally better for the environment (if you care about that sort of thing).

Some Pruis owners have also found that by blocking some of the airflow over the radiator and into the engine compartment of the vehicle during cooler temperatures, their MPG isn't affected as much. Blocking some of this airflow allows the engine to remain warmer longer when it isn't running, especially when spending significant time at speeds below 42 MPH. There is some risk associated with components overheating, but with care it can be a relatively safe thing to do at low temperatures.

 

Thank you for pointing out this distinction here. It is one of my pet peeves when people mix the two together or say "maintenance issues" when they're really talking about (lack of) reliability.

Predicting whether or not a given car will need a repair is tough, but past performance on the same model, esp. on the same generation across a large enough sample size can help. Also, a manufacturer's overall reliability record and range can help a LOT. That's where reliability ratings like those from Consumer Reports come in.

Fortunately, the Prius and Toyotas do very well in terms of long term reliability. Toyota makes very few vehicles w/reliability as low as average, let alone below it. Almost all of them are above average to far above average.

I'm still wondering who is feeding the OP comments like

along w/any other specifics (so we can refute or acknowledge them) and the Prius knowledge level of those people. I suspect those folks don't even own one and are spreading the usual misinformation and FUD.

I spoke to a Seattle Auto Show attendee about Priuses while sitting in an Insight, the other day. The guy actually seemed somewhat knowledgeable about cars and EVs (Tesla came up) but he had a bunch of information like asserting the Prius' batteries cost $8K to replace. I immediately showed him http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/prius-battery-change-is-no-big-deal.aspx.

It is NOT 100 kilos. That would make it ~220 pounds. The pack is ~100 pounds.

 

I can put a 10 foot 2 by 4 inside the car, diagonally. Quite a lot of 8 foot lumber fits in, straight up the center. My avatar shows a ladder that is 17 feet fully extended in my Prius, behind the front seats. I carry a lot of 'stuff'.

If either of you feel that cross winds make the car twitchy, there is an under $50 brace that helped me. Installation is easy, four bolts off, then four bolts back on.
prius stiffening plate items - Get great deals on Car Truck Parts, Suspension Steering items on eBay Motors!


I used to vacation in Hurricane, UT, nice area!

 

No. There's a 12 volt in the back right corner (not under the hood). It's behind a large black box on the 2nd gen. The HV battery is the big battery that's behind the back seat in a large silver box, that's almost the width of the car. Picture at Hybrid Components. To see it, remove the cargo floor in the rear hatch area, then remove the large black plastic tub above the spare tire.

The 12 volt is the aux battery, mentioned further down.

The winter gas and your lower temps will almost certainly have some effect on your mileage.

I'm not surprised that the people spreading misinformation are non-Prius owners. Regarding, FUD, see Fear, uncertainty and doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It's very common in the technology industry.

The large touchscreen is called the MFD here. It's standard on all (US) pre-2010 Priuses. It's gone on the 2010 unless you buy nav but the power flow display, history were relocated to a dot matrix display a/few colors that's smaller, more difficult to operate but at eye level and has some additional functionality.

Correct, not all Priuses have a backup camera. Because it has the backup camera, it also has the newer higher resolution display w/improved graphics. http://priuschat.com/forums/knowled...andard-optional-equipment-some-countries.html may help you.

 

Ruth, I block my grill with pipe insulation & tun the tires at max sidewall pressure so my experience may not match the "typical" or "average" owner's. I have about 10 1/2 months in the 2010. Compared to my 2006 the fuel economy per tank is more consistant. This car seems to like operating in cooler temps, say the 50's F. My commute is ~35 miles. 1st quarter 2010 FE ranged 45-52mpg (2006's 48-56). Lots of cold temps & snow. 2nd quarter was 52-57mpg (2006's 48-77). 3rd quarter was 49-58mpg (2006 51-63). The 49.4mpg tank is suspect as it is sandwiched between a 58.1 & 57.9 tank. Fourth quarter is 54-57mpg (2006 50-70). I'm still trying to get my 1st 60mpg tank.

The 2006 liked it a bit warmer.say the 60's F. When a very low tank is next to a very high tank it is probably a fueling issue with the bladder. Averaging the two tanks together usually results in an average (or better) tank.

The 2010 is a bigger, heavier car and at this point in time has a slightly higher lifetime average. Whether you buy a Gen2 or a Gen3 you should be able to post good numbers. it will mostly depend on your terrain, climate & speed. Prives can be checked through www.aaa.com.

The 2006 had 1 problem fixed under warranty, 1 patched tire, & the 12v battery replaced (1 paid for, 1 under warranty).

The 2010 had 1 patched tire.

The only other expenses were oil changes & air filters.

Right now, if something happened to my 2010 today I'd start shopping for another V-AT tomorrow.