Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to HSD.

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Well, Volt IS more advanced than standard Prius, of course... is it better car? Thats another story... LS600h is a lot more advanced than Prius too

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

I think there are two reasons why CS mode MPG is not great in the Volt.

1) It's a car that weighs 1715 kg (vs 1380 kg for the Prius).

2) They used a low efficiency Otto cycle engine, when they could have used a higher efficiency 'Atkinson cycle' (or Miller cycle) engine like the Prius.

When the Gen2 Volt switches to an Atkinson cycle engine, this alone should increase CS mode mpg by around 15 - 20%. I suspect the reason why they didn't do this for the Gen 1 is that they didn't have enough time before the deadline to develop one.

Improvements in battery chemistry and packaging will allow greater SOC utilisation and lower pack weight for the Gen2, which should reduce overall vehicle weight by around 200 kg. In the meantime, I think it's remarkable that they can get 40 mpg from an Otto cycle car weighing over 1.7 tonnes.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Good points, also there's the aerodynamics involved. I'm not sure what the Cd is, but it's probably above .26 as they wanted a car with a more standard sedan appearance.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

The Atkinson cycle engine by itself is not patented by Toyota, as it's been around quite awhile. How Toyota implemented it probably is, since I understand they didn't really change the geometry of their standard engine as much as change how the timing and controls work to simulate the Atkinson cycle.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

I read 0.28

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Yea, Volt is very heavy for a compact car. It is 141 lbs more than the largest full-size sedan in the Chevy line (3.9 liter V6 Impala LTZ).

The mid-size Ford Fusion Hybrid weights 3,720 lbs vs. 3,790 lbs for the Volt. FFH is rated 39 MPG (combined) with 2.5 liter Atkinson cycle ICE. Volt with 1.4 liter Otto cycle ICE should get about the same.

Volt test drives are showing about 35 MPG in HV mode. Volt is said to be in full throttle most of the time. With minimal pumping loss, I would expect more.

I suspect the Volt's inefficiency is the result from the way planetary gearset is hooked up. Both the ICE and the MG-B has to work against each other, in order to turn the wheels -- similar scenario of the Prius in reverse with the ICE running.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Volt's aerodynamic is rated at 0.28 Cd after testing in a wind tunnel that makes the measurement with the wheels standing still.

Toyota tests Prius with the wheel spinning (like in the real-world) and it is rated at 0.25 Cd.

All three wind tunnels used by GM, Ford and Chrysler test without the wheels spinning. They put Prius in those wind tunnels and got 0.31 Cd. It is clear that Prius' aerodynamic is designed for when the car is in motion.

I would like to know the actual Cd of the Volt's measured in Toyota wind tunnel or when it is being driven.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

I have the magazine in front of me, and if you flip the cover over, you get... 2 pages of Cadillac advertisements, and later in the magazine, an 8-page Volt ad on card-stock paper. No ads for Toyota, Honda, or Nissan in the entire magazine. So of course Motortrend will say GM is better than Toyota. Pay me off, and I’ll lie too! That said, if the Volt were $12,000 cheaper, the PHV Prius would have some real competition. Oh well. GM CEOs need their yachts.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Very interesting, thanks. 0.25 to 0.31 is over a 20% difference. Makes me wonder about wind tunnel testing as a useful measurement in general without known standards.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Hmm, weren't "GM's" planetary gear arragnements patented by TRW in something like 1967 ?

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

One question. Does all that tinfoil in your hat interfere with your XM reception?

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

I wonder if GM has purchased the rights to the Edsel grille. That horse collar obviously should be incorporated into the Volt's grille and soon.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Motortrend then goes on to say "The $41,000 tab is probably $10,000 more than the car merits."

This agrees with my rough math of the cost if PHV Prius stuffed a Volt-sized battery into the PHV Prius.

So does anyone have a thought as to why GM is charging "$10,000 more than the car merits"?

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

They have an American CEO's salary to pay?

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

My really cynical side says it's to recoup as much of the development cost as they can before they cancel production in three years.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Or just to cash in on early adopters.

More likely it's to steer people into the lease. Which does does bring up the EV1, but, if playing conservative, gives GM a better hand at keeping customers happy. If problems emerge, despite all the testing, once released into the wild, it's easier to swap in an updated car to an upset customer with a problematic one. On the positive side, if something that will improve the car, like an Atkinsonized engine, was laft off do to deadlines, but will be available soon, A leasee won't feel as cheated as a purchaser.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

If my memory serves, a few dollars here and there were given to GM by the government.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

I think the price of the Volt is high simply due to the nature of the design. You have two powertrains that is perfectly capable of driving it alone. ICE needs to be turbo charged however as in the Cruze. It is a perfect example of what a hybrid should not be - for the drivetrain it is double the weight, double the room it takes, double the price, double the complexity and no gain in MPG nor lower in emission and it needs to be plugged in!

If the Prius came out with the Volt drivetrain back in 2001, it would have been an instant failure. Pretty much everything the anti-hybrid naysayers said would have been true.

Many people fell for the lure of the 40 miles on EV lust. Look at it deeper and you will see what really is.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Ironically, GM's new "runs deep" motto perfectly describes the problems they face. It's troubling to think how long it will take for consumers to discover this. Heck, even the enthusiasts have reverted back to quibbling about small details rather than dealing with the big picture. It's really an unfortunate situation.
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Volt is a niche vehicle. It's clearly not designed for those who drive more than 12,000 miles per year or who don't have a plug available. Then for those who it does favor, many simply cannot afford it.
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Volt is the design people argued against a decade ago, double the complexity with very little MPG benefit. Engine operation should be much more efficient (50 MPG) and much cleaner (PZEV).
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