Volt Fraud At Government Motors

We should get the golden parachute back from the responsible CEO(s).

 

There has never been a free market in this country, hence- no disconnect. What we have is the classic mode of "privatize the profits, socialize the losses". Even Nissan with their battery plant in Tennessee is being subsidized by the Federal Reserve Cartel under the guise of the proverbial "taxpayer"....who just happens to be on the hook for > $40 trillion dollars within the next couple of decades thanks to a whole assortment of waste over the last 4 decades or so.

Speak to the inherent corruption- fine, but the anachronistic Coke vs. Pepsi thing REALLY needs to be relegated to the trash bin.

 

The government has investment in oil reserves so going totally electric makes no sense.

Weening the people off petrol for auto use isn't the way to go. Oil will be needed for many other products in the future anyway.
You can make hydrogen at home from natural gas, solar(concentrators or PV), wind or anything else that can move magnets over copper wire.

Don't people ever tire of getting home smelling like smog? I guess the real issue we'd face with hydrogen as fuel is the lack of fresh water, but it might just rain more due to cloud formation due to water vapor so you just don't know until you try on a larger scale. It would be one of the most interesting experiments that we'd all be a part of.

My prius still :rockon: 's but if it ran on hydrogen I would live in it.

 

I'm really getting tired of you guys making closed minded remarks.

33k=Loaded Prius goes at most one mile on batteries. So if you do live 20 or so miles from work you don't have to burn gas with the volt. SO THE PRIUS DOES NOT MATCH UP TO THE VOLT EV RANGE AND BECAUSE OF THIS THE VOLT COSTS MORE. Bigger batteries= more cost so it's not fair to compare prices UNTILL THE PRIUS CAN COMPETE WITH THE VOLTS EV RANGE. Ask others to explain this to you.


I'm not saying the volt is a better car i'm trying to explain to you one of the reasons it costs more.

For the other people who bring up the 200mpg statment I thought that was what they were trying to say when using the money it cost to charge the batteries and drive in ev mode only compared to paying for gas?

Didn't the Leaf say something about 300mpg+ whay don't you bash them too?? Cause you hate gm. So why don't you just say I hate GM. Instead of find reasons why just say I hate everything about gm. http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10310134-48.html

 

What is the market share percentage for the Prius again?

I stand by my opinion that the majority of our society is ecological illiterate.

But since you asked here is what a quick search pulled up for Prius incentives, many set forth by Government.

Government and corporate incentives

Government incentives

A number of governments have incentives that are intended to encourage hybrid car sales.
Belgium

The [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium"]Belgian[/ame] national government offers reductions in the purchase price of up to 15% for buying cars that have lower CO2 exhaust.
Canada

The Canadian federal government offered a rebate to those who bought or leased hybrid cars, but the rebate program expired on December 31, 2008. Some provincial governments also offer incentives such as in British Columbia,Manitoba,Quebec,Ontario until 30 June 2010,and Prince Edward Island.
Germany

In Germany there is no Government Incentive for hybrid vehicles, but since July 1, 2009, car tax ("Kraftfahrzeugsteuer") has been modified, taking into account engine displacement, type of engine (diesel/gasoline and Euro emissions standard category) and CO2 emissions (before it was based on engine displacement, type of engine only and emissions standard category only).
Any car emitting less than 120g/km CO2 pays only tax based on engine displacement. In particular [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro"]€[/ame]2 per every rounded 100 cm³ for gasoline engines (diesel engines pay [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro"]€[/ame]9.50, with concessions depending on the emissions category). An additional [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro"]€[/ame]2 is taxed per every additional gram emitted above the 120g/km limit. Due to this regulation all Prius 2010 registered after July 1, 2009 are taxed [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro"]€[/ame]36/year.
In comparison, all second generation Prius, registered for the first time before July 1, 2009 and after January 1, 2005 are currently paying [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro"]€[/ame]101/year.
The CO2 emissions limit will be reduced in the coming years: in 2012 will be lowered to 110g/km and in 2014 to 95g/km. It is not clear whether this regulation will be retro-active, effectively raising the tax imposed on owners of cars emitting above the newly introduced limits. The tax imposed on all new Prius 2010 registered for the first time after July 1, 2009 will remain nevertheless [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro"]€[/ame]36/year (since the maximum CO2 emissions rating is 92g/km), unless the taxation based on engine displacement is changed in the future.
More information on German car taxation can be found (in German only).
Netherlands

In the Netherlands, the government has lowered the tax for company-cars with CO2 emissions below a certain level (such as the Prius) to 14%. The tax on all other class company-cars has been raised from 22 to 25%. As a result, in the month January alone, more than 1800 cars have been sold. The importer has already indicated that he can no longer meet the demand for the year 2008. Privately owned cars with low CO2 emissions benefit from lower road taxes.
Sweden

In order to stimulate sales of less environmentally destructive vehicles, the Swedish government awards private purchasers of the Prius (and other qualifying cars) [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_krona"]SEK[/ame] 10,000 (roughly US$1,700, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro"]€[/ame]1,100) after six months of ownership. This subsidy program has been very successful.
United Kingdom

In the U.K. there are both fiscal and parking-related incentives. The fiscal incentives are general; road tax is just [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_sterling"]GB£[/ame]15 a year, or [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_sterling"]GB£[/ame]0 for the third generation Prius. Businesses can now (from 1 April 2008) claim a 100% first year tax write-off for the Prius because the car has CO2 emissions of less than 110 grams per kilometre. The tax charge for a Prius that is provided as a company car is just 10% of its list price, rather than the heftier rates that can be up to 35% of a car's list price. Parking incentives exist in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Richmond_upon_Thames"]Richmond upon Thames[/ame] (south west London), [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Westminster"]Westminster[/ame] (Central London) for resident parking permits, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester"]Winchester[/ame] (now discontinued),Manchester, and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton"]Brighton[/ame] has similar plans. Drivers can pay [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_sterling"]GB£[/ame]10 to register for an annual exemption from the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_sterling"]GB£[/ame]8 daily London [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge"]congestion charge[/ame] Some of the incentives in the United Kingdom have been criticized in the press given that non-hybrid cars, some of which may have better fuel economy and be more environmentally friendly to produce in some circumstances, are not afforded the same incentives.

United States

The U.S. federal government offers a tax credit to purchasers until a certain number of cars has been sold by a manufacturer. This has ranged from US$787 to US$3,150, which expired in 2007 for hybrids sold by Toyota. Some state governments, including Colorado, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut"]Connecticut[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois"]Illinois[/ame] offer tax incentives.
Some hybrid automobiles are exempt from high-occupancy vehicle lane restrictions in some U.S. states, with California leading with 85,000 eligible hybrids, though the benefit for these cars expires on January 1, 2011. Los Angeles and San Jose, California had exempted hybrid cars from paying for street parking. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State"]New York State[/ame] offers a special "green" version of their E-ZPass toll payment tag for hybrid owners who use the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NYS_Thruway"]NYS Thruway[/ame] system, which gives the owners a 10% discount on tolls. Also, the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Authority_of_New_York_and_New_Jersey"]Port Authority of New York and New Jersey[/ame] offers their "green E-ZPass" to hybrid owners, who pay US$4 instead of US$8 to use all the bridges and tunnels between New York and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey"]New Jersey[/ame], except in rush hours.
Corporate incentives

Several U.S. companies offer employees incentives. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America"]Bank of America[/ame] will reimburse US$3,000 on the purchase of new hybrid vehicles to full- and part-time associates working more than 20 hours per week. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google"]Google[/ame], software company [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Solutions"]Hyperion Solutions[/ame], and organic food and drink producer [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clif_Bar"]Clif Bar & Co[/ame] offer employees a US$5,000 credit toward their purchase of certain hybrid vehicles including the Prius. Integrated Archive Systems, a Palo Alto IT company, offers a US$10,000 subsidy toward the purchase of hybrid vehicles to full-time employees employed more than one year. Clothing companies [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Timberland_Company"]Timberland[/ame] and Patagonia, law firm [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLA_Piper"]DLA Piper[/ame], non-profit [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jewish_Committee"]American Jewish Committee[/ame], software publisher Topics Entertainment, Logistics Giant [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exel"]Exel[/ame] Contract Logistics, and research firm ABR, Inc. are among companies offering eligible employees significant discounts on certain hybrid vehicles including the Prius.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelers_Companies"]Travelers Companies[/ame], a large insurance company, offers hybrid owners a 10% discount on auto insurance in most U.S. states. The [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers_Insurance_Group"]Farmers Insurance Group[/ame] offers a similar discount of up to 10% in most U.S. states.

 

If it is true, as some of the PC responders have said, that the government manipulated the upper and lower conditions for a vehicle to be eligible for a tax credit ...... to exclude vehicles other than the Volt ... then I think that is fraud of the most serious magnitude. Prius battery capacity too low; Leaf battery capacity too high?????

 

i finished high school in 1972. my oldest was born in 1980. i would say that we as a nation have been well educated in environmental issues over the last 30-50 years. but, like everything else in life, it takes more with some people than others. in the end, it will probably have to come down to financial incentives and disincentives.

 

Oh c'mon F8L ... what be you mean an educated society. WE be educated. We be mo an mo edutated each years. We be giving dem football scholarships to a hoe lota peoples! Ana hoe lotta basketball scholarshipts two.

Ok, so I'm wrong ... dem football scholarships seem to have done little ... that is, if we truly believe our nation's ills can be righted by changing to the other/equally corrupt party ... we better hold on ... it's going to be a bumpy ride.

How does one reconcile the concept of GM "profitability" if 1/2 of the company's stock is still a government holding.

 

Good point... so vote for the right candidate not along party lines!

 

You're right that some of us hate G.M.'s CEOs. After all, they deliberately killed the electric car, and then sold the patent to an oil company(!!) who promptly buried the patent. The Volt is a $41,000 insult against the American taxpayer. G.M.'s CEOs again don't want this "electric" car to succeed either. This $41,000 car has received billions in subsidies and bailouts, so please don't claim each one is being sold at a loss.

 

I understand that but how would you explain societies resistance to doing something about our problems? Don't get me wrong, many people including yourself do but not at the level required.

 

No you are absolutely right. Most of the problems at GM were way before the bail out. The bail out was not for the volt. The CEO that led the company back to profitability said 14 months ago the true pricing and expected range of the volt and even suggested that competitors may have better technology, and the higer cs mpg were said by bob lutz pre bail out, the lower price was also said but lutz pre bailout.

The bail out was to keep jobs, and as a hard capitalist I did not like it. Toyota profited greatly from subsidies for hybrids, from cash for clunkers, and indirectly from the bail out because it kept parts suppliers out of bankruptcy. The thing stank, but the volt part of it was really inconsequential. Full disclosure, I have no stock in GM but myself and family profitted from the bailout from interests in part suppliers and other car companies.

 

The two major companies lobbying congress for the law were GM and Toyota. At the time toyota was expected to be selling a plug in prius in mid 2010, and gm the volt in november 2010. Toyota was against the subsidy, until the bill was written to include the plug in prius, and set minimum size battery of 4kw. The max tax credit was set for the size battery gm wanted. No other auto manufacturures were really in the room. Yep, Toyota and GM working together to green america, or get a hand out from the tax payers to build cars they wanted to build anyway. Where is my plug in prius?

 

I wish I could. But after being slaughtered in the primaries in previous years, the right candidates in my district didn't even file this year.

 

There is a guy at work who listens to conservative talk radio a lot in his work van.

He swears manmade global warming is a hoax. Uses the argument humans put out CO2 every time they breathe.

I read Wiki sometimes about global warming and climate change and it seems complex and controversial.

Not sure where I'm going with this, but it sure seems most people are not all that concerned about their 'carbon footprint' in daily living. Maybe this post belongs in Fred's pancakes section.

anyhow, I like quiet, clean and efficient vehicles.

 

It's actually an EV until the battery runs out (first ~40 miles).

If you really are concerned about the mpg in "gasoline-only mode" (which is not what this car is about) you can get over 50 mpg if you drive it carefully. Volt 51.9 mpg in CS mode

However, if you use it the way it is designed to be used, 40 miles per day of zero gasoline, you can drive 14,600 miles per year without using any gasoline. Add 3,000 miles for holidays and long distance trips using 79 gallons of gasoline, that works out at 17,600 miles for 79 gallons, or 223 mpg over the year.

The journalists testing the Volt at the media launch averaged 50.2 miles range in EV mode, and the best of the day was 57.8 miles (by Chelsea Sexton).

 

What would we use then? If we removed greed aka capitialism or corruption aka goverment how would we do things?

 

Well in that case the Prius is an EV until the battery runs out (first ~ 2 miles).

 

That's an ideal. In real-world driving, people using the Heater, Defroster, and A/C. All of which draw electricity from the battery-pack, reducing driving range. In the extreme cold, the engine will be used for warm-up too.

That's likely why GM backed off of the "gas free" advertising and shifted their focus to 12,000 miles per year instead.
.

 

I guess this is part of the conspiracy of misinformation being spread in the media by a handful of Koch-style oil billionaires.
The trouble with Obama is he hasn't gone far enough in leading this country out of the abyss dug by his right wing opponents--with all their deficit spending and government financial deregulation under Bush.