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She died on the road. (Anyone familiar with Capital Toyota in Landover, MD?)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by JimboK, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    OK, here are the codes:

    P0852
    POA1D
    P3000
    P3108
    P2799
    U0100
    U0111
    U0129
    U0146

    The service adviser said that after they reset the codes the car behaved normally. They drove it for 22 miles with no problem. I asked about the 12V battery status and he said it was fine (though I know that should be accepted with some caution). He said "they don't know what to fix." Perhaps understandable if the car is now behaving normally?

    He will be faxing all five pages of diagnostic report to me. After I get that I will scan it and post it here. Meanwhile, Patrick (or others), any further guidance?
     
  2. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Make that six pages.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes, there are so many DTC that I can appreciate that the tech doesn't know what to do. They returned the car to you, so that you can drive it and wait for the car to fail again.

    I would focus on P0A1D and P3000. Were the three-digit info codes associated with those two DTC logged? They don't seem to be recorded in the six pages that you uploaded. The info codes would potentially provide a better hint about the problem.

    At this point it seems that either the traction battery or the hybrid vehicle ECU has a problem. The HV ECU seems more likely since the problem is intermittent.

    Unfortunately, it appears that you'll have to suffer another failure before any action is taken.
     
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  4. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    I assume I got everything they have.

    Educate me, please. First, what is the difference between the "P" codes and the "U" codes. I notice that each freeze frame data report on pages 2-5 lists one of these U codes, with information codes in the detail section for some of them. And do those information codes give any insight? Finally, page 6 lists freeze frame data for C2315. What is a "C" code and (perhaps you don't know this) why would that not have been on the original code list?

    Meanwhile, it sounds like you're saying my only real choice is to pick it up and hope either that it never fails again or if it does, that it does so in the next 27K miles (when the hybrid warranty expires.) Assuming that to be the case, my tentative short-term plan is to pick it up tomorrow afternoon after class, drive it the 60 or so miles to my class site, and finish up the week here. I can drive the 175 miles home either Friday night or Saturday morning -- most likely the latter in case it fails again. And if it fails on this trip, I'll have it towed either to the Frederick dealer I mentioned in a previous post or to one of my home dealers, whichever is closer.

    Thanks for letting me pester you on this. I've mentioned to other members more than once how helpful and knowledgeable you are. You have come through yet again! :cheer2:
     
  5. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Oh, Patrick, one more thing: Do you think we can safely rule out an inverter coolant pump or inverter problem now? How about the 12V battery?
     
  6. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Sorry I missed this earlier. No worries here about butting in.

    I would assume in your case that if you had a real problem then you'd get some codes. Regardless, I had previously made up my mind to have the inverter coolant pump replaced at about the 100K mark.
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I do not think the inverter or the coolant pump is a problem. The 12V battery is relatively new so it shouldn't be a problem, especially since your failure occurred only after you'd been driving for a couple of hours.

    DTC codes have a common format. The first character is alpha and the last four characters are hexadecimal.

    The first character can be one of the following:

    P = powertrain
    B = body
    C = chassis
    U = network

    P0A1D is pointing to a problem with the HV ECU or an associated component, depending upon the three-digit info code.

    P3000 is indicating a problem with the HV ECU or traction battery (or out of gas situation which you did not have) depending upon the info code.

    The various U codes are reporting that the HV ECU lost comm with the engine, traction battery, skid control, and gateway ECUs.

    DTC C2315 is logged by the transmission control ECU and is reporting a problem with the HV ECU, the P switch, the transmission control ECU or the associated wiring harness.

    Given all of the above, the HV ECU seems like a likely suspect.

    If you like, you might try calling the dealer service manager tomorrow and say that all these DTC were logged yet no problem was diagnosed, you have a long way to drive and have lost confidence in the car, and ask whether the tech can engage Toyota tech support for assistance.

    Or, at minimum, keep a copy of the repair paperwork in the car so that if/when it fails again, you can provide this to the next Toyota dealer service dept that you visit, thus proving that the issue is not a one-time glitch and that they need to do something for you besides resetting the codes and setting you loose on the road again. Good luck.
     
  8. northwichita

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  9. autoxic

    autoxic Commuter

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    This may not apply, but make sure you really check the connections on the 12V battery, and clean them. I used to have a Saturn that would die going over some bumps, often going through dangerous intersections.

    Cleaning and sanding the battery posts and connectors helped. Anyway, this is an easy thing to do.
     
  10. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Sorry weekends are always difficult for me to find time to check priuschat. :)

    There are separate sales reviews and service reviews. If you choose only service reviews then there are two 1.0 ratings and one 2.0 one. This is why I said "poor" but the sample size of three is too small to be overly concerned. In general user reviews need to be taken with a grain of salt anyway. I wonder if some dealers may fake good reviews for self and bad ones for competitors. Some dealers "encourage" customers to give positive reviews with various incentives such as a free oil change. :(
     
  11. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Ah, OK, I didn't take time to drill down that deeply.

    Despite the potential for a dealer to "stack the deck," the specific and detailed comments are telling. Though a customer might offer a numerical rating, it seems unlikely that someone would take time to write a glowing narrative with specific praise if their main motivation was a free oil change.
     
  12. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    If the wires are accessible maybe one could also try to tug and wiggle the wires to find bad connections?
     
  13. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

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    Bummer Jim. I vote for the loose wire or harness connector.

    Wayne
     
  14. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I would double check that Optima installation for loose connection because it needs new cables due to the difference size of the battery terminal.
     
  15. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Update: The car is back in my hands and it survived the 75-mile trip from the dealer to my class location. I will let this sigh of relief come out completely after it makes it home Saturday.

    Yep, I plan to do that when I have a chance, though I used the eLearnAid adapter kit so I have no reason to think the problem might be there.
     
  16. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    can you make a stop in the silver spring/north bethesda area on your way back? DH would be happy to look at it.
     
  17. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    I sure can! I'll PM you.
     
  18. Mike Dimmick

    Mike Dimmick Active Member

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    I think we're seeing an internal communication problem in the HV ECU, between the main processor and the communications processor(s). The HV ECU contains 5 CPUs, one of which runs the main control program, another two generate the AC drive waveforms for MG1 and MG2 respectively, and the others do communications to the other ECUs. I don't imagine the software was written to cope with a drop-out here and treats it as a failure to communicate with those other ECUs.

    Likely the P0A1D would tell us more, but they haven't captured freeze-frame data for that one to tell us which one of the 40-odd error codes it is. Most of them simply say 'replace HV ECU'.

    Assuming that the CAN bus checks out OK, I'd say it's probably a crack in the HV ECU circuit board or a bad solder joint, and that replacing the HV ECU is the right solution.

    Patrick: P3000 only ever means 'problem reported by Battery ECU'. You have to look at the Battery ECU to see what the problem is. I'm not sure why Toyota have included this proxy DTC in the HV ECU, but they have. Perhaps there was some limitation on the Combination Meter seeing the codes from the Battery ECU, in order to illuminate the master warning light, on the original model, and that software hasn't been removed?

    P3000 INF 388 does say that one cause is fuel shortage; this is recorded when the Battery ECU is reporting that the battery is discharged more than the normal lower limit, which tends to happen when you keep driving after you run out of fuel. There isn't a no-start code stored for Jim, so I don't think this is the cause.

    The Battery ECU's U0100 code is interesting as that shows loss of communication with the engine ECU (ECM). That might point to a general CAN failure rather than just the HV ECU.

    I also note that the freeze-frames on pages 2, 3, and 4 have the same Engine Run Time and DTC Clear Run Distance, so I'm guessing they actually did occur simultaneously, but that the one on page 2 has a coolant temperature of 0°C and battery voltage (+B) of 11.73V while those on 3 and 4 have 85°C and 13.84V. Could be a power-supply sag, which might indicate an intermittent short somewhere.

    There's a big difference between the accelerator pedal position #1 and #2 sensors which seems weird, though I admit I've not seen any freeze-frame data before to compare it to. These could be raw percentage of sensor power supply voltage rather than translated input.

    If that is true, 16.8% of 5V is 0.84V and 32.5% is 1.625V, which according to the chart for DTC P2122/3/7/8 is zero pedal - they should be 0.8V apart. On pages 3 and 4, 25.2% is 1.26V and 41.9% is 2.095V, which is about 20% of full travel.
     
  19. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    As far as fuel is concerned, there were no indications that that was an issue. As reported previously, I had five pips at failure time and battery SOC was 60+%. I drove 75 miles after picking up the car yesterday and it still has three pips.

    I too noticed that discrepancy in 12V readings. Thanks for offering a theory.

    And thanks too for your detailed response. Another valuable addition to the knowledge base on this issue.
     
  20. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

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    Your seeing DH, trouble over, next.

    Wayne