Pennzoil Platinum for Hybrids

The Pennzoil site does not compare their Synthetic oil for Hybrids to other oils.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:snAZr4t...atinum%22&hl=en

Available Grades include:
5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30,
5W-40 Euro, 5W-30 Euro

The product data sheet:

http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/Domestic...ticMotorOil.pdf

 

I'd put my trust in a Toyota engineer and use 5w30 than 0w20 as some people recommend.

I used to run 0w20 in my 2002 Civic since that was the recommended oil in the cap, but I won't do that to the Prius.

Plus 5w30 is easier to find on shelves.

 

It also depends on the country you live in.

As an example with Honda, they have specified a 5W-20 for almost 9 years, at least for the Civic. The same exact motor in Austrailia "requires" a 10W-40 or 20W-50.

Fords have "required" 5W-20 for almost as long, even the 6.8 litre V10 used in pickup trucks and motorhomes. There doesn't seem to be any unusual engine failures, at least not yet.

Mazda also "requires" a 5W-20 in at least some of their motors, and I noticed that Daimler Chrysler has jumped on the bandwagon with some of their pickups and SUV's.

As far as clearance issues, there is no real difference in motors between Honda, Toyota, and Ford.

The recently discontinued Mobil 1 0W-20 is a great winter oil, especially at -40. As far as fuel economy gains, I've never used a synthetic oil just for that reason.

When you compare Mobil 1 0W-20 to a conventional 10W-30, at operating temperature, you might "gain" around 2.5%. So instead of 50 MPG, you'll be getting 51.25 MPG.

With 3 days of driving using Mobil 1 0W-30, my fuel economy is exactly the same. I'll see what happens once I get back to Winnipeg.

 

I too have been trying to decide which synthetic to run in the Prius. I ran Mobil1 15W-50 in a Honda Rebel 250 motorcycle after a break-in period of 600 miles and currently have over 90,000 miles, but Toyota is calling for 5W-30 and that worries me a bit since I live in Florida.

Apparently the Mobil1 5W-30 is on the lower end of the acceptable 30 viscosity range, with a 100 C cst rating of 9.7. Red Line is rated as a great synthetic oil, it has the rating of 10.7 for the 10W-30. The Penzoil Platinum is rated at 10.52 for the 5W-30. (It would be interesting to compare the Penzoil Platinum 5W-30 Euro to the regular 5W-30.) The Valvoline SynPower synthetic oil is supposed to also be rated fairly high.

Of course, that isn't the only rating to go by. There is a website, I think it is trustmymechanic.com where they rate oils. It looks like a lot of data to try to figure out. I also sometimes wonder if it all isn't just an advertisement for Amsoil, since they usually rate that as the best (surprise).

Now, at WalMart the Mobil1 5W-30 is $4.00/qt in the 5 qt. bottle, with the RedLine twice as much through mail order. I haven't checked the Penzoil Platinum price yet.

One final note is it may be a bad idea to use a different viscosity oil than is called for by the manufacturer, at least during the warranty period. I have read about Ford V10 engine failures being denied replacement under warranty because they saw that 10W-30 oil was used instead of 5W-20. I don't know for sure if that is true, but I will follow the instructions and hopefully avoid any potential trouble.

 

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

How about all those Honda's and even Ford Motorhome chassis with 6.8 litre V10's running in Florida, Arizona, and Southern CA with 5W-20 in the crank? How often do they blow up??

The primary consideration with something like Mobil 1 5W-30 is that although it's near the lower range of an SAE classified 30, it's very *stable* and will hold that grade. A regular 5W-30 or 10W-30 will not: first they shear and thin out to a SAE 20 or lower, then sludge up and turn into a SAE 50 or 60.

So far in summer I haven't noticed any difference running Mobil 1 0W-30 in my Prius. That is, the fuel economy is the same. I would expect a slight gain in fuel economy in winter, especially near -40, as the Mobil 1 0W-30 will have much less drag than a regular 5W-30

 

This may have been true years ago when multigrade oils first were introduced and the VI improvers sheared down pretty quickly.

I think any good quality multi grade dino oil would maintain its' properties for many miles beyond the specified 5k interval in a Prius engine.

If your premise is indeed factual, I would think we would see the roadsides cluttered with cars and trucks that have suffered lubrication related engine failures, not to mention the cars emitting heavy blue smoke caused by the premature wear due to inadequate lubrication.

Just my 2 cents worth as a chemist and ex lubricant salesman who also dabbled with toilet paper bypass oil filters.

 

I'm (currently) able to afford the $25 per oil change cost of my oil, and only if that changes will I consider another type. Overkill or not, I like the idea of no sludge...

 

You'll find plenty of those cars around here. There was a rash of engine failures last winter due to the extended -40 weather. See, a regular 5W-30 only has to be "good" down to about -30 C or -22 F, at least according to the SAE J300 specification.

Trying to start the motor and go at -40, especially after a weekend "cold soak" at -40, resulted in many blown front seals. Of course, the driver continued until all the oil was gone and the motor seized. It made my commute very long, tiring, and annoying.

Of course, the climate here can drop to -42 C in winter, and the hottest this summer was +36 C. A marginal oil will not hold up under such conditions, hence the high proportion of cars less than 6 years old already burning oil.

Well, I have a lot of Industrial Process Control experience, including a long stint at Honeywell Industrial that included petrochemicals. I'm not a ChemEng but I am a Systems Analyst who quickly had to pick up the terms and understand how the process worked. Maybe that's why I fear distillation columns.

Actually the TP bypass filter was one of the best ideas ever conceived. It was a remarkably cheap way to dramatically extend the life of a motor, provided you were careful not to leave the TP filter in too long. An Uncle of mine here in Manitoba used the TP bypass on his farm trucks, tractors, combines, and personal cars. They seemed to last forever.

As far as oil specifications, I guess we have to rehash the SAE J300 and ASTM stuff again, especially how the ASTM specs are determined.

The kinematic viscosity at the test operating range (+100 C) is determined by ASTM D445. For cold weather operation there are two very important test regimes: the ASTM D5293 (Cold Cranking Simulator) and the critical ASTM D4684 (Mini Rotary Viscometer) pumping test.

For an xW-30 the SAE J300 calls for an operating "range" of 9.3-12.5 centiStokes at +100 C, with a minimum High Temperature High Shear rating (ASTM D4683, Cummins CEC L-36-A-90, and ASTM D4741) of 2.9 centiPoise at +150 C.

In contrast, an xW-20 calls for an operating "range" of 5.6-9.3 cSt, and a minimum HTHS of 2.6 cP. I'm sure you have noticed that these ranges overlap and statistically are within expected error and Confidence Interval.

Many oil companies are reluctant to publish the ASTM D5293 and D4684 test results. For those that do, such as Esso Canada who apparently has nothing to hide, it is readily apparent a conventional 10W-30 is unsuitable colder than -25 C.

They also publish that a conventional 5W-30 is "borderline" colder than -30 C, and continued operation in ambient temperatures colder than that requires a semi-synthetic or a fully synthetic oil. They prefer you run a synthetic 0W-xx in temps colder than -30 C.

Before Mobil for some reason stopped publishing MRV and CCS data for their Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 oils, their SuperSyn 5W-30 was "good" to -50 F, their 0W-30 to -62 F, and their 0W-20 to -68 F.

As far as overall oil specifications, the SAE specs are rather lame compared to the ACEA specs required of European oils. For example, at one time a typical 5W-30 oil would "pass" the SAE/ASTM test regime if it "only" thickened 500% during the 80/96 hour test.

Question: would the oil even come out the drain plug if it had thickened that much? Or would you have to take the oil pan off and use a hammer and chisel?

The oil would also "pass" if "only" 35% vaporized during testing, and the test engineer was allowed to add up to 7.5 litres of makeup oil during the test.

The ACEA oils are usually run for much longer durations, such as 200-300 hours. The test engineer is NOT allowed to add make-up oil. Usually the extended 250 hour sequence sets the viscosity increase at under 90%, and the volatility under 20%.

Look, if you run a cheap North American oil, it will usually perform ok in *moderate* ambient temps (Not extreme heat and certainly not extreme cold) if changed before 5,000 miles. If you're extending the oil drains, or driving hard like in towing or hauling, stay away from "minimum" North American oils.

A good way to be assured of getting a good North American oil is to get an oil that meets diesel specification, such as CI-4 or CI-4+. Those oils are not allowed to thicken much, must be less than 15% volatile, and have very high TBN's to compensate for acid in the crank.

Caveat: Due to the additives used by some companies, not all CI-4 and CI-4+ oils are compatible with O2 sensors and catalytic converters. If they are compatible, they will also list a dual rating, such as SL/CI-4+

 

Several months ago, I posted that I was totally in favor of synthetic oils when used in extremely hot or cold temperatures while I couldn't justify their use under more "normal" driving conditions, especially when combined with a 5,000 change interval. I think you replied to my message and were in agreement.

So far, I've read nothing on Priuschat that would convince me to change my opinion.

 

Rick don't be afraid to spin on a new filter at 5 and 10 thousand miles if you have any concerens. Also consider the 90915-YZZA1 filter instead of the "A2" it's the same mount and bypass but is 3/4" longer with a bit more media in it.