June 30 - Prepare to Prepare

They will. According to people who have chatted with Nissan Customer Service - you will have to sign a waiver. Thats it.

You should call & checkout as well - to confirm.

 

OK---I'm just a bit confused. I have placed my deposit, and fully intend to purchase the Leaf. I have a fully functional 220V outlet in my garage, within 3ft of where I will park the car. Now, why do I have to buy their charger??? Won't the Leaf plug into a 220V outlet? Help me out here, somebody.

 

no. u need a special plug. i guess you could rig a cable up, but not recommended. i have an electrical contractor guy i know who (this was like 3 months ago and we knew little then) says that a charger can be built for $500 and is going with some pretty heavy duty equip. so, you dont have to go with Nissan's vendor.

 

NEC a.k.a. code. Seach j-1772. Also see this ..

My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - We need a portable 240v EVSE

 

Where ?

 

when the Leaf becomes available and mainstream. this will take at least a year. there will be others installing this charger and i wouldnt be surprised to see a portable option along with other options. i have a window AC that plugs into 220. now, i have checked my breakers and i have room. have 4 empty slots and only need two to get 220 but i am pretty sure i wont have more than 30 amps i can put to it.

either way, my EV needs are currently moderate and i dont expect that to change. i also fully expect to get work charging, etc. i only see the needs for fast charging to pop up occasionally. but that would be for trips to Seattle and such. Tacoma is close enough i could RT it. granted, i am looking at 12-16 hours to recharge, but that is fine for now.

 

My toy fuel cell car has the PV panel on the car. As we've discussed for real cars, that's just not enough area. Several people here have PVs on the roof of their house and run their cars and houses from that. Yes, solar is diffuse. That's why the PVs need to be on the house.

The real issue is not with the PVs and diffuse sunlight; it's with the fuel cell, which is far too expensive. It would make more sense, as you say, to use a battery instead of the fuel cell. In the case of my toy car, it's a cute toy. In the case of a real car, batteries are the way to go.

My understanding is that the car communicates with the L2 unit. If they program the car to accept only the L2 unit for 220 v, then that's it.

It would be foolish of Nissan to refuse to sell you the car without the L2 unit, but they can if they want.

And we all know how reliable the customer service line is. As for me, if I buy the car I'll buy the L2 unit. I can afford it, and even though I think 120 v would be enough for me, I'd just as soon have the higher installation.

I gather that the L2 unit is an active device which communicates with the car and provides a controlled amount of current. The car will plug into 120 v directly, but will plug into 220 v only via the L2 unit.

Personally, I feel this is a poor choice. They should allow plugging directly into a 220 v 30 amp dryer circuit as well as a 220 v 50 amp RV circuit.

There will probably be aftermarket L2 units available at some point, but until someone hacks the unit we won't know how difficult that will be. I'd hope Nissan is smart enough to publish the protocols to make it easy.

Now for a wild speculation: It may be that the L2 unit functions as a secondary panel. Connected to the main breaker box with extra-heavy wire, and including its own breaker and ground-fault interrupter, it makes for a safer installation in a high-current application. The last thing Nissan wants is nation-wide news coverage of a house fire caused by improper wiring for charging an EV.

 

i think we need to examine exactly what this "charger" does. its not really a charger at all. its a transformer that provides no more function than a transformer used to charge your cellphone.

look at your dryer. when it runs, it requires different voltages at different current levels. all those power demands are determined by circuitry on the dryer and is drawn from the same power cord.

the only thing the EVSE has that is really different is a few idiot lights that tell you the car has completed its charge. this only saves you from having to look at the dash on the car to get the same information.

the EVSE does not determine how much power to give the car nor does the car tell the EVSE how much power it wants. now for Nissan to start putting in limitations for charging options would be foolish especially when 110 volts is so common. i have not read anywhere that 110 volt charging is restricted in anyway whatsoever. i dont know of any batteries that suffer from slow or trickle charging, only overcharging.

and i agree that Nissan's customer service has provided a lot of misinformation. now we have someone stating that we will see a 500% increase in the initial product launch and this is first told by a representative making $2 above minimum wage.

funny that the top brass would leave a huge huge huge positive publicity announcement to such a person.

other than the 4700 that was announced that would be available, there have been many news reports from Nissan that they recognize the higher than expected interest and were looking at ramping up the numbers, etc. but no definite word on that yet, only some talk?

so i have to ask; is there any other words, verified from Nissan about increasing the initial launch #'s? i know there are several perks that expire Dec 31st such as WA State Sales tax that would put a huge damper on the purchase for me.

besides; before i signed up for the Leaf, the #1 thing i verified was 110 volt charging. around here, that is all we have currently for public charging along with my work. if that is not an option, i will continue with my Zenn and wait until it is.

 

Dave, thats not right. J-1772 has some signalling. Infact without signalling the car is supposed to drop to a L1 level. I don't think the EVSE has a transformer - it will probably just work with 240V. It will have some relays and logic elements.

My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - EVSE Home Assessment Scheduling is Live!

 

the "charger" for the car is in the car. go back to the dryer example. your dryer uses several levels of DC voltage and AC voltage to run. the plug or the power supply simply sends the 240 to the dryer. the plug cannot manage power in any way and neither will the EVSE. it does have a signal loop from the car, but that is only to provide charge status on EVSE and that does not control the charge and i be willing to bet that runs on 5 volts DC so completely unrelated to the charge mode.

otherwise, we could not plug into anything that does not have prior knowledge of the car. in the future, were we to upgrade to a bigger pack, we would have to replace the unit. that is not going to happen. there is no way that Nissan will require a proprietary charging network when we still are hammering out the details of L3 charging.

we still have to remember that both L1 and L2 charging is AC power to put into DC batteries. so that has to be converted. the EVSE will not be doing that either.

what we really need is a schematic

 

It is way more complicated than that.

Actually, the EVSE does tell the car how much power it can provide.

The SAE J1772 spec does more than just "supply status lights".

First of all, it defines the connector with 5 pins:
AC line 1, 2/neutral
Ground
Proximity detection - prevents car from moving when plugged in
Control pilot - allows coordination of charging levels between charger and EVSE

The Control pilot comms performs these functions:

1. Verification of vehicle connection
2. EVSE is ready to supply energy
3. EV is ready to accept energy
4. EV requires indoor ventilation to charge
5. EVSE current capacity

So as you can see, the EVSE is a lot more complicated than just a plug. Even your 120V emergency charger will comply to the SAE J1772 specifications.

Start here: [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772]SAE J1772 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Lots of information on the spec there including links to detailed schematics.

 

ah that link does provide more info than i have seen before so there is some info being passed back and forth and this implies a future update to 6.6 KWH with no mods at all so why would anyone settle for less now?

again the link specifies general information on the plug standards but nothing specific as to what the Leaf will do. it definitely will not be doing 80 amps or even half that so why bother?

this is a spec to conform to a general EV charging scenario is all i see here. now this is all nice info that i was not really aware of since i am not getting a charger installed right away if ever. one day i am sure i will, but not this one now.

 

I'm trying to understand this, but wouldn't it be more reliable and cost effective to upgrage the Prius with hymotion? Plus, the hymotion is plugged into a regular outlet without the added expense of the Leaf's charging station or additional electrical service upgrading. And does anyone know what the estimated range is say, 65mph with the A/C on? I doubt that performance is worth $40k all in for either car really.

 

Nissan has said before that initial Leafs will ship with an on board Level 2 3.3 kW charger - 6.6 kW chargers will be coming down the road and it will likely be possible to upgrade early Leafs.

I'm sure the reasons have to do with either cost or available of parts. If that's a deal breaker, just wait. There are plenty of people lined up for the Leaf as is.

If a car wishes to use a J1772 plug, it has to conform to the specification, otherwise it will not operate with the J1772 compliant EVSE.

The whole point of the spec is to provide a standard so we don't end up with a large number of competing charging standards and to provide a common infrastructure for all EVs to use that is safe, reliable and flexible. The Volt will be shipping with the same J1772 plug. That means that any EVSE that works for the Leaf will also work with the Volt. Tesla will supposedly also be providing some sort of J1772 adapter or plug as well for existing Roadsters. You can be sure that the Model S will ship with a J1772 plug (along with whatever Level 3 DC plug becomes standard some time next year).

There's currently 2-3 "standards" out there which limits your opportunity charging unless you have some sort of adapter.

It's not a "charger", it's an EVSE. The charger is on board the Leaf. You get a Level 1 EVSE with the Leaf that is designed for portable/emergency use.

 

THANKS! everyone, for responding to my question about just plugging into a 220V socket. So....I guess I'll buy whatever is necessary to do the faster charge.

 

I've been calling it a charger because that rolls off my typing fingers easier than EVSE. Of course, it is not a charger.

I think the people on that phone line just make up stuff as they go along. Either that, or, when they put you on hold to "research" your question, they ask their supervisor a completely different question. "How many cars will be delivered in December?" becomes "How many cars will be built in the first year?" which gets interpreted as "How many cars will be built in the first 12 months?" and the answer comes back 25,000.

Here's a real sticker for those of us in states like WA where a significant tax break ends on December 31:

We will have to order our car in August if we want to be in on the first batch; but we will not know if they will deliver our car in December or in 2011. The dealer cannot make promises because he does not know, and has no control over delivery.

No. A Hymotion Prius is not an electric car. A Hymotion Prius runs the gasoline engine any time you go over 42 mph, and any time you step harder than feather-light on the go pedal. For the first 60 miles or so, it uses about half gasoline and about half grid power. It's probably a much better solution than the Volt, but it is not an EV. The Leaf is a pure electric car. Apples and oranges.

After the tax break, the Leaf will be around $25 K, not 40. If you have a gas car that does everything you need, and you do not need a second car, buying a Leaf will not reduce your transportation costs.

However, if you are a two-car family, and you are ready to trade in one of your gas cars, you are probably better off to get a Leaf than to get another gas car.

Of course, people choose their cars for many reasons other than cheap transportation. Nobody tells a BMW buyer he should buy a Civic instead because it's cheaper. There are folks here who want to drive an electric car, and are willing to pay for it. For me, a Leaf will be a big step up from my Zap Xebra. (Though if my electric Porsche is back on the road, I might decide not to get a Leaf after all.)

 

From the Leaf FB page:

 

Don't get all excited.....I just got a Nissan email but it's nothing great, news-wise.

It talks about the Smyrna opening; a bit about the new Nissan You Tube channel; Shiro Nakamura winning an industry award for his design work; a bit about the partnership with Lance Armstrong; and a contest to win a Nismo 370Z (which is probably the best part of the email!).

 

32k starting price according to Nissan's website. Its a $7,500 tax credit availible for the lease option so I will guess that it will also be applied to purchases? because the wesite does not specify.

So $25k, but thats before taxes, finance charges, interest, options, and the home charging station. I think my first summation was 40k'ish all-in?

Still, going 100% EV is a positive step in the right direction, and that should more than justify the price for many folks. For me, it just doesn't make sense right now, financially speaking.

Now, supposing the Prius used $1,000 a year for gas, then it would also cost $40k after ten years. In that respect, the Leaf is less economical because not many people own their vehicles for ten years. But that is also supposing the price of gas remains at 2.5g, however, gas will likely increase and if it were to double then the Prius would enjoy the fuel economy nearing that of an SUV. Well almost LOL

I submit, the Leaf wins.