Do not buy BP gas.

It's like the Lexus dealership that did nothing in the face of multiple customer complaints of sticking floormats in that car, and the Massey Mine that had an egregiously bad record of safety violations, and the terrible record BP has of compliance (they have the largest number of violations at over 900, next to Exxon with less than 10, so I read). You can keep telling yourself that the world is imperfect, but the fact remains that courting disaster by ignoring standard protocols/laws and not doing proper planning imparts a lot of liability. It's not like everyone in all three of these cases was dotting their Is and crossing their Ts.

Does this mean you're not even going to try?

 

Just curious, which incident was this?

I'm aware of 15 killed at the BP/Amoco Texas City plant, March 23, 2005.

In our Western Washington area, nearly all oil comes from the BP/Arco, Equilon (Texaco / Shell joint venture), and Tesoro refineries.

6 were killed in the Equilon refinery blast in 1998, 7 were killed in the Tesoro refinery blast this April, and 3 civilians were killed in the 1999 Olympic Pipeline fire, a pipeline that serves all three refineries.

I guess I have to park the cars forever. Today's bike commute was nice, but darn, tomorrow's will be a soaker.

 

Waaa Waaa. Somebody is upset he got called out for acting like an imbecile. I do have some knowledge regarding the issue. Firstly, I am a chemical engineer. I have a feeling that you are not. Secondly, 20/20 is NOT a credible source when it comes to these issues (I hope you weren't referencing my use of "20/20" as I was referring to vision). The facts will come out. But at this point, I do not have any patience for individuals of your demeanor who think they know all after watching one darn television program. Do you think BP profits from this? Do you think they want to lose oil/business? Have you boycotted nuclear energy and begun living by candlelight following the 3 Mile Island incident?

Don't even getting me started regarding Toyota... Should we all boycott them?

 

Fuzzy1 touched on it in his thready, but in the west you also should stay away from both Arco and Thrifty stations, both of which are BP subsidiaries.

 

I'm not buying BP gas now either. The "mom and pop" ramifications suggested are not persuasive enough for me to change my mind. Any time one makes a purchase with their dollars, they are choosing to support a company, a philosophy, technological advance, or some such thing, and the competitor that lost out has less money to support labor that could also be referred to as mom and pop.

One thing I'm curious about, however, is that I heard that I'll be purchasing BP's gas whether I want to or not and that such a boycott won't have any ramifications to BP but doesn't BP net less profit if their fuel is sold through an intermediary rather than through a direct franchise?

 

My understanding is most of the 'BP' stations are independent franchises. Generally this would mean the station pays a flat fee to BP each year. Doesn't matter how much or little fuel the sell.
BP makes their money selling gas. The sell to ANY gas station. If BP stations sell less gas, others in the area will sell more. BP doesn't care.

The only way to actually hit them is to use less gas from any source. Drive less, carpool more, buy a more efficient vehicle.

 

Again, you share part, not all, of the responsibility. Your share of the responsibility is determined by the lifestyle choices you make. I don't think you understand my logic. It requires seeing yourself in as objective a light as possible. Try to step outside yourself. Assigning a greater share of blame to another party than oneself helps insulate us from accepting our own share. A petty thief is still a "bad guy", even if a mass murderer walks into the room.

 

FYI,

Looks like BP's latest efforts to cap that well are failing. See for yourself...

Live feeds from remotely operated vehicles | Response in video | BP

About 7:30 last night (west coast time) the "cap" was put in place over the pipe. Since that time the "cap" has been moving around and has not stabilized (or sealed) the pipe. Best view to observe this is from "Enterprise - ROV 2" camera.

Keith

 

My point -- are there any brands left to not boycott?

 

To call for a boycott of BP gas is about as dumb as it gets, its the same thing as that stupid email that makes its rounds about not buying a certain oil company's gas on certain days, doesn't work, makes no sense, and doesn't accomplish anything.

This was not fully BP's fault, it was the fault of almost no regulations, and the company who built the BOP, the BOP was defective, and from what I gather, the design hasn't changed since the ixtoc oil well drilling blowout in 1979.

 

Seriously... responsibility for what? The fact that oil drilling is done? Yes. I know that I use oil. I take responsibility for that. We're not talking about whether oil drilling is bad, we're talking about the reckless practices used by BP that lead to the oil spill. If you choose to continue to knowingly support BP when other options exist, then you are responsible for perpetuating those bad practices, especially if you continue to knowingly give money to BP when other options exist because BP is cheaper. You are voting with your money that saving a few bucks at the pump is more important than increased safety for the environment. You are the one giving oil companies the message that they can destroy the earth as long as you save a couple bucks.

You're concentrating too much on whether people use oil and ignoring the process of how that oil is acquired. Boycotting BP is about the latter. Using oil isn't necessarily bad. Every form of energy has it's negatives; whether it's wind farms killing endangered birds or prey to nuclear waste.

If you really believe using any oil at all is equivalent to approving of BP's recklessness, then this debate is pointless because the foundations of our arguments exist in entirely different dimensions.

 

Again, BP sells fuel to ANY gas station. Boycotting 'BP' stations will have zero effect on BP.
If you want to hit them in the pocketbook, the only way to do so is to use less gasoline...Period.

 

Again, BP still gets franchise payments. If we can get all BP stations to change to different franchises, that is money lost to them. It may not be a lot, but it's better than nothing. Also, BP isn't the only gasoline provider. So for area's that do get their gasoline from other companies, those franchise payments really are the only income BP gets.

 

Again, you ignore reality, BP stations get gas from BP and other companies, believe it or not, refineries put gas in a tanker, and the only thing that usually makes it Exxon, Shell or even BP, is a 1 gallon container of additives. To furnish the amount of gasoline this country uses, it requires all the companies furnishing oil products, not using one company would simply postpone you having to use the boycotted product anyway.

And the other part of that is the fact that you think franchise fees will hurt BP, it would, but it would be very very minor, it would hurt the independent business man more, his employees and the bottom line, gas revenues have to be in large volume for the gas station owner to make much profit on it.

Overall the idea is ludicrous, BP needs money to pay for all the damages, and you would rather hurt them with less money, and its not totally BP's fault, the people who furnished, installed, and maintained the BOP are a big majority of the fault, and they aren't BP, just hired by them.

 

Of course the impact isn't going to be major, but it's better than nothing. The reality is that BP is a corporation and the only goal of corporations is to make money. It's states like Texas that elect politicians that caused all the deregulation and that's where the fault really lies: in the notion that the free market is the solution to everything.

As for your last comment that we shouldn't try to harm financially because they need the money to pay for the damages, BP can be liquidated in bankruptcy court. Arguing that we need to give BP money so they can give it back to us minus salary for it's executives is the exact opposite of what we want to do. That's the same kind of logic that said we need to continue giving billions in bonuses to the investment bankers that created this recession because they were the only ones who know how to fix the problem they created.

 

And you still ignore the fact that BP is not totally responsible, they didn't set the regulations, they simply enjoyed the regulations, or lack thereof, and BP bought a BOP, probably sold to them as the greatest thing since sliced bread at the best price.

The idea that a boycott would hurt BP is still ridiculous, because in all reality it wouldn't, the oil that BP furnishes the country is STILL NEEDED by the country. Want to hurt BP and all the other oil companies, since they are all responsible for this spill also, get everyone you know, and everyone they know, and on and on, and get them to buy high mileage vehicles. Good luck with that by the way.

 

Lets see if this explains it better:

The idea that oil companies sell gasoline only through their branded service stations, and therefore, if you don't buy gasoline from BP-branded gas stations you're not sending money to BP, is wrong. Oil companies sell their output through a variety of outlets other than their branded stations, also, by the time crude oil gets from the ground into our gasoline tanks, there's no practical way for consumers to know exactly where it came from.

The primary potential effect of the type of boycott proposed in the don't buy BP messages, is to hurt those at the very end of the oil-to-gasoline chain: the independent and franchise service station operators who operate on thin profit margins, and even a single day's disruption of supply or demand can wipe out many days' worth of hard-earned profits. As such, a boycott of BP labeled gas stations is a punch on the nose delivered to the wrong person.

 

Gotcha. I figured BP made more of a profit margin on the fuel sold through their own franchise since there wasn't another entity in the between the vendor and the consumer but I guess I'm wrong. I tried to find confirming info on this but there isn't any so I'll have to take you at your word.

One thing seems apparent, gas station owners make very little margin on gas sales. They rely on the products in their stations to turn profit for them. Since I don't buy impulse stuff from inside gas stations, they surely won't even notice I'm missing. Evidently, my boycott will hurt no one. I guess my boycott will stand symbolic.