This is pretty horrifying YouTube - Red Light Runners Compilation Especially the motorcycles, they didn't stand a chance
Red Light & Speed Cameras | POI Factory Garmins stash of red light cameras Then I watched the video start and find I can't delete my post...
Um ... you missed the point. It doesn't matter if YOU have garmin red light camera data base ... because: A ) BOTH people at the intersection would have to have it B ) BOTH people at the intersection would have to USE it. Chances are .. a big chunk of the accidents are simply people NOT paying attention ... phone ... texting ... reading the paper, etc. The really sad accident in that clip was at 2min 30 seconds ... the kid with the balloon getting creamed by the driver who (again) was obviously not paying attention.
A significant number of these accidents were not from running red lights, but from turning across oncoming traffic. Regardless, the same truth holds in both: there are a lot of bad drivers out there. I'm not sure of the solution, but it seems a good first step is setting reasonable traffic laws and then enforcing them to the letter. As it is, we set speed limits but then allow people to speed, we have lane usage rules, but almost never enforce them. Some things are judgment calls, but not red lights. There is no valid reason for running a red light in normal conditions. This is one of the reasons I like red light cameras: you either stopped or you didn't - end of case. Driving is a serious business. Somehow we need to force drivers to be serious or get them off the roads. Tom
What does Garmin's red-light camera data base have to do with this? Except that if you use the data base you can be confident that your death (from running a red light) won't be caught on camera. In addition to the left-turners (who are always supposed to yield to on-coming traffic) are the people who rammed into stopped cars. A friend of mine was hurt in just such an accident. She's better now. I witnessed a red-light crash a while back. Fortunately the major damage was sustained by the light-runner, whose car was broadsided by a truck. Also, fortunately, nobody was seriously hurt. The light had NOT recently changed. Traffic was flowing freely through the intersection both east- and west-bound, when a car came from the south and just barreled through, crossing three lanes of traffic before being broadsided in the last lane she'd have had to cross. I never found out whether she was distracted or stupid or whether perhaps her brakes failed. (She was not driving a Toyota.) The video makes me wonder if I should stop driving. There are LUNATICS out there.
I agree that there needs to be better enforcement of these things. But I am very much against red light cameras. (Never have been ticketed or anything, just dont like them) Also against speed cameras. I fully stop at red lights and stop signs, but it seems this is a rare occurance for most people. There are times people have honked at me because I am stopping fully at a 4 way stop. Or when at an intersection where you have a red light, and the other direction have advnaced greens. Now in some places, they put green right turn arrows just for this situation, but if the light is red, it is red and you stop. People just dont get it. I did take drivers ed, and I do think it should be required. Way too easy to get your drivers license. But back to why I disagree with the red light cameras... True that under normal situations running a red light is a no-no, but when it is handed out in black and white by a computer when you need to run a red light, you will get a ticket. Example: Heavy snow storm. Mostly ice. The roads were slick and I was driving normally, and stopped at the red light. I see this gigantic lifted pickup truck coming up from behind and I can tell he is going way too fast for the road. I do the thing where I let off the brake and press it again a few times to make the brake lights flicker and hopefully get him to slow down. Well he was still coming at me, so I went forwards into the red light a bit, crawling along giving him more room to stop. Then I gunned it through the red light when I saw his back end swing out obviously lost control. If I had not have ran that red light, I would be a pancake thanks to an idiot driver. All of this happened in probably 5 seconds or less, but you know how things are slow-motion sometimes. There is no way I would ever pay for a red-light ticket for that instance. Yes it was illegal, but I was also doing my best to avoid an accident which I did. I could see the truck making donuts through the whole intersection, bumping off the curb, and running into the ditch in my rearview mirror. I bet he was speeding in the blizzard too.
One think I've noticed as an outsider watching that video was that your traffic lights are quite high up, almost out of sight. Obviously it is what you get used to and paying attention is a key element, but could the design of some of these traffic light and junction layouts be part to blame? On the subject of traffic light cameras, we've had them here for about 15 years and one of the problems are when emergency vehicles want to pass. A driver will not pass the line on a red light to move out of the way of an emergency vehicle as they'd get flashed and 6 weeks down the line get a fine in the post. Try arguing that you moved to allow a ambulance past, to some faceless beaurocrat 2 months down the line! Some of my colleagues have been hit this way. You get 3 points on your licence (12 points in 4 years and you're banned!), a £60 ($100) fine and an increase on your insurance. But equally, having been nearly wiped out a number of times by red light jumpers, I also think the camera are helpful.
I agree that there are a lot of bad drivers. I also feel that many of these accidents happen, not because the driver is a "bad driver" but rather because the driver was distracted. In some respects the distracted driver is more dangerous than a bad driver, in that the distracted driver doesn't even see you (as a driver/biker/pedestrian) entering his or her danger zone. Thus, there is no ability to attempt accident avoidance or even just slow down, both of which might reduce the severity of the accident. [I T-boned just such a distracted driver. I was riding my bike straight down a street, and a driver coming in the opposite direction suddenly turned right into my path. He was delivering lost luggage for the airlines, was looking for a certain street, found the street sign, then his eyes just locked onto that sign and he never saw me.] As for the cameras, some people protest them, but I say if they record a person running a red light...it's ticket time.
Clearly the use of cameras requires support in the rest of the system. A single frame photo lacks any context. I would like to see a series of photos, or video, which would clearly show the emergency vehicle. Just because a tool is poorly used does not necessarily mean it's a bad tool. Tom
If you can control your passive aggressive tendencies for a minute you will notice that in my post I expressed my wish to delete the post, I found the video to be in such poor taste it was my desire to withdraw from the situation...
Jayman isn't passive aggressive. If you set him off, he goes full-on aggressive - nothing passive about it, unless you consider that throbbing vein on his forehead. Tom
0:41 what a lucky bus driver...that Benz driver was expecting a hit! Let go of the brakes to give the extra room, smart. 2:24 impressive glass shattering action 3:11 this guy takes the grand prize, unbeveliable!! 3:44 bad idea buddy...funny how the car right behind the sheriff's (who was also on the left turn lane, also had his right blinker on...might have been following the other car and lucked out) 4:35 wow, didn't expect that much commotion. 6:02 I wonder if he survived?
Grumpy, the one advantage of having lights high up is that it makes it easier to see the light upon approach, if/when there are tall trucks in front of you. This happens especially at slower speeds when traffic normally bunches up closer. On a contrary note, I'd have to admit that in my 38 years of driving, I HAVE run to red's via not paying attention. It was obviously not my time as the intersection was clear. What REALLY creaps me out is how most folks never realize they blew a red ... simply because their attention was even farther out than those who at least noticed. .
The red-light cameras decrease certain kinds of accidents, and increase others. All in all, they are pretty much a wash as accident prevention. Their undisputed utility is in collecting fees for the operators and local authorities. All I ask is that local authorities not be permitted to share fee revenue. Then we will get a fair hearing on whether the devices should be discarded.
Ambulances here carry a transmitter that signals the traffic light to change. Not all lights are equipped, but all the ones with cameras are. You can actually see this at 3:15 in the video. The light flashing at the top indicates that the system is activated.
Traffic tickets are primarily about revenue generation, not safety. They are sold to the public on the basis of safety, but governments like red light cameras because they consider them to be an ATM. Almost as good as toll bridges.
So once again we are talking about the misuse of a tool. Traffic tickets *should* be a method to help enforce compliance. If they are being misused, then that should be addressed, but it doesn't obviate the need to control traffic. In a similar vein the argument that red light cameras increase some types of accidents is also fallacious. Red light cameras encourage people to obey red lights. If additional accidents occur it is because of the red light, not the camera. People run into the back of stopping cars because they are driving too close, driving too fast, or not paying attention. Don't blame the red light, and especially don't blame the camera. Our society takes a pattern of bad driving behavior and tries to pin it on traffic laws that we don't like because they inconvenience us as individuals. Americans have a very strong sense of personal entitlement which often interferes with the general good. Tom
