Model S 600 Mile Pack in the works?

No way ! that would silence all naysayers in one shot. has the range of an ice! a round trip could from nyc to boston could be done with no stops. I would pay the premium for that in a .

 

"Despite the range of the still generous 300 mile pack, Tesla is claiming a 45 minute quick-charge time"

let's say they will get somewhere in the 250Wh / mile range, so that is a 75Kw usable energy pack.

now for the math, 75Kw in 45 minutes? Sounds like they have a 100KW charger, lets look at a "standard" 240V average american home, just to see how ridiculous this claim is.

Take 240V @ 200AMPs, your entire electrical service in most houses. that is only 48KW, total. so we need slighly more than a 400A electrical service (all of it), in the home to do it.

They are not talking about 45 minutes in your average house, this is stritcly going to run on 480V 3 phase, or higher power only, commercial locations only. forget about 45 minute home charging.

 

wow ... now THAT's a battery!
. . . . . and yet GM was whining about the Volt's 40 mile range battery needing a radio that uses less power (scratching head)

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Even stating that a 45 minutes charge is possible, without qualifying it, it misleading. Just marketing coolaid, it is meant to mislead the public. They should state the realistic expectation of home charging, and with a 75KW pack, even at 12KW (240V 50A circuit), is going to take 6 hours to recharge, and thats on this mythical 300 mile pack. The 600 mile pack? double that.

 

The battery warranty is better than the Roadster. I think we'll have to thank Panasonic for providing the cells.

 

"If it sounds too good to be true ....." You know the rest.

A 600 mile battery; 45 minute quick charge; 230 mpg ....... all advanced PR hype from companies that (Tesla) promise an "S" model in 2012 (elsewhere 2013 is predicted) and GM .... and we all know their record for exactness.

Seriously, I know nothing about battery chemistry, but WHY (or HOW), with the Volt's tremendous battery (size and weight)(to the extent that they can only provide a 4 seater) are they only boasting a 40 miles range, and others talking 100, 200, 300 and now 600 miles? Is the battery going to be so big that it will be hauled behind in a U-Haul? I have a vision of two railroad locomotives MU's together, except the follow along car carries only the battery. That would work!

Answer this: We have all read page after page explaining and justifying that "virtually everyone" in the world commutes less that 13 miles .... each justifying the Volt's puny range. Why would anyone need 600 miles?

I am not a naysayer .... I like what is promised,and I am encouraged about the future of EV's for all the reasons that we have read. But TODAY, this week and next, I am perfectly satisfied with my G3 and the flexibility, and care-free driving that it provides. We shall see what is actually available TOMORROW, at what cost, and how reality matches the advanced publicity.

It promises to be interesting.

 

The day I can afford a 600 mile battery in my S I'm getting an Energizer Bunny painted on the fender.

Energizer, if you are willing to pay for the 600 mile battery my car can be painted Energizer Bunny Pink with a big Bunny on the hood.

 

Wonder how much a 75KWh pack would weight?

 

Assuming the same level of technology, take Volt's battery pack as a reference, it weighs 400lb for 16 Kwh.
75/16*400=75*25=1875lb
Assuming $600/Kwh, a 75Kwh battery would cost about $45,000
with today's technology.

Yes, I will see it to believe it.

 

Assuming the model S is similar size to a Camry at 3000 lbs, then with the additional battery weight the total would be 4800 lbs, I wonder what is the wh/miles will be carrying all this dead wight around.

 

If you look at Nissan's Leaf pack, it weighs in at # 450, for 24KW, triple that for #1350 and 72KW, might be possible, but Nissans pack is air cooled, no active cooling system, here is the link to the modules/cells they are using, the Leafs pack is made up of 48 of these 14.4V 33AH modules, my guess is (2) 24 module 33AH strings of 345.6 volts each, 66AH total.

TECHNOLOGY - Automotive Energy Supply Corporation

They could use 144 of these modules, to get the 72KW's, the weight on just the 144 modules would be 3.5Kg each & 144, or 504Kg or 1,111 pounds for just the modules...

Nissan is reported to have the cost at around $375/kw, so a 72kw pack at their cost would be $27,000. Of course that is with Nissan owning the majority of AESC...


Of course Telsa does not use this technology right now...

 

Again the 300 mile pack may not even possible.

Here is the link to wikipedia about the Model S battery pack. It says the 300 miles pack is more like 84KW.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_S"]Tesla Model S - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

"The base model will have a 160 miles (260 km) range when fully charged using a 42 kW·h battery pack (24 kW·h/100 mi, 108 [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpgge"]mpgge[/ame]). Larger, longer range battery pack options will be available as well; the options announced include a range of 230 miles (370 km) from a 65 kW·h pack (26 kW·h/100 mi, 100 mpgge) and a range of 300 miles (480 km) from an 85 kW·h pack (26 kW·h/100 mi, 100 mpgge).[29] The base battery pack will contain 5,000 lithium-ion cells, reported to be sourced from Panasonic, while the larger battery packs will both contain 8,000 cells and weigh approximately 1,200 pounds (540 kg). The largest pack will use the same number of cells, but each cell will have a 30% higher [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_energy"]specific energy[/ame] to enable the pack to store the additional energy.[30] A 45-minute QuickCharge of the 42 kW·h pack will be possible when a [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_phase_electric_power"]3-phase[/ame] 480 volt, 100 amp circuit is available (80 amp continuous draw from a 100 amp breaker)."

 

A few thoughts:

1. You cannot compare Volt numbers to the Tesla S, simply because the Volt is designed to fail, just as the EV1 was designed to fail.

2. Nobody needs fast charging at home. At home you charge over night. At home you need to be able, in 8 hours, to recover the charge you use on a normal daily basis. Only on road trips do you need a fast charge. And you only need that if your car's range is less than your day's driving. Otherwise you can slow charge over night at the hotel.

3. Now just talking about me: More than 6 hours of driving is very hard for me at my age. I used to be able to drive for 12 hours, but no longer. Six hours at 65 mph is 390 miles. But the farthest places I drive in a day are around 325 miles away, so if I had a SAFE REAL-LIFE HIGHWAY range of 375 miles, I could sell the Prius. I don't expect to be able to get that any time soon. I suspect the "300-mile" version of the S would not have the real-life range to get me reliably more than 3/4 of the way to my hiking lodges. Maybe I'd be willing to stop over night and make it a two day drive. Or maybe I'd settle for the 100-mile leaf for the 75 mile max I'd ever drive in a day at home, and keep the Prius for road trips.

4. They said they were "working on" a 600-mile range. Not that they would have it any time soon. "Working on" could mean researching possibilities for the distant future. It is reasonable to believe that they are "working on" that, though I'd say that anything over 400 to 500 miles is overkill.

 

Tesla Model S use 18650 laptop batteries and get 300 miles range. Nissan Leaf use custom lithium polymer prismatic cells and get 100 miles range. They both have the battery pack in the floor of the car.

How can Tesla get more energy density out of cylindrical laptop cells? I would think prismatic cells would have higher energy density.

 

I think that you have to ask that question to panasonic rather than tesla . I know recently that Panasonic announced they would have available a battery (3.1 Ah vs the 2.8Ah available now)with 30% more energy (density?) that weighs exactly the same.

so at this current point and time the 600 mile pack isn't feasable, but in the next 5 years at the rate panasonic keeps improving their batteries then I think it's very realistic to say a 600 mile battery pack is is not only possible, but probable.

 

i am a bit lost as to the issues with the recharge time. granted, it is done. in fact, i have done it several times and will do it in Sept. but rarely is anyone gonna drive 600 miles, refuel and then jump in and do another 600 miles back to back. that is what?? a tenth of a tenth of a percent situation??

what is the range regained from 7 hours of 240 volt?? or 12 hours, etc? that would be the important figures. otherwise, this 600 mile fast recharge, the average person would NEVER need, the rest of us, might need it once or twice a year.