Toyota Prius PHV Plug-In To Average 75 MPG

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Danny, Apr 29, 2010.

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  1. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    When the MPG numbers from the Prius PHV Plug-In demonstration program start rolling in, expect to see average fuel efficiency jump by 50% over the standard Prius to around 75 MPG. Toyota has not verified this MPG number in the United States for the press, but the details are out on the European Prius PHV and one of the details included in this 68 page introduction to the European Prius PHV is fuel economy. The standard EU 3rd Generation Prius consumes fuel at a rate of 3.9 l/100km, and on page 32 of the pdf you'll find that the Prius PHV is listed as recording 2.6 l/100km, showing a full 50% jump in fuel economy. No matter what way you do the conversion into US miles per gallon, you end up with around 75 MPG. The document also provides a little extra information we have not previously had on the Prius Plug-in, including that the charging port charges the 2 EV battery packs but not the HV battery pack. Power output numbers are still listed the same as the standard 2010 Toyota Prius. The Prius PHV also decreases the amount of CO2 emissions by 33%, going from 89 g/km to 59 g/km. The final U.S. MPG numbers could vary from the EU numbers depending on differences between the demonstration program vehicles and the final production vehicles, as well as taking into account possible differences between the US EPA and the New European Driving Cycle fuel efficiency tests. Additionally, plug-in drivers' fuel efficiency is going to vary widely on an individual basis since some will only travel in EV for 10% of their trip while others will travel 100% of the time using pure electric power. Toyota's demonstration program over the next 2 years should net some interesting data on how people use the plug-in Prius on a daily basis. It will also be interesting to see if Toyota decides to use some of the fuzzy math tricks that GM used in computing the Volt's 230 MPG number.
     
    #1 Danny, Apr 29, 2010
  2. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    I think that there are some regional or conversion differences that have to be reconciled first before we get into a 230 mpg brouhaha..

    We know that the G3 Prius in the US achieves a solid 50 mpg in normal weather. Using this conversion calculator
    Online Conversion - Fuel Consumption Conversion

    50 mpg converts to 4.9 l/100 km


    From the article...
    Do the G3 euro-Prius' really achieve 3.9 l/100km???? How do they get 20% better efficiency than in NA?
     
    #2 DeadPhish, Apr 29, 2010
  3. Nevillewc

    Nevillewc New Member

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    If one battery is for HV, is this a Ni-MH battery?
    It would make sense to keep a tried and true technology rather than jump to lithium.
    Maybe cheaper as well.
     
    #3 Nevillewc, Apr 29, 2010
  4. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    In the US, the only mileage a vendor can report is the EPA numbers. So one year the Prius fell from 61 MPG to 48 MPG with no real mechanical changes. With no real mechanical changes, the Prius seems to get 3.9 l/100km by the European test parameters, and 4.9 l/100km by the EPA test. I do not find this odd, it is just a different test.

    The usefulness of the tests is to test different cars by the SAME test.
     
    #4 JimboPalmer, Apr 29, 2010
  5. Nevillewc

    Nevillewc New Member

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    Now I have read the article - all lithium batteries.
     
    #5 Nevillewc, Apr 29, 2010
  6. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    No, all 3 'seperate' packs of batteries are lithium ion on the PHV.

    Toyota?s First Production Lithium-Ion Drive Battery


    Edit: Saw you replied while I was posting my reply but the article link is still a decent one...
     
    #6 Paradox, Apr 29, 2010
  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    50 is most definitely solid.

    49.9 MPG is my current average, after enduring a Minnesota winter... which isn't exactly what you'd consider "normal".
    .
     
    #7 john1701a, Apr 29, 2010
  8. joe1347

    joe1347 Active Member

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    75mpg. Certainly would be nice if we could buy one. Are you listening Toyota?
     
    #8 joe1347, Apr 29, 2010
  9. F512M

    F512M Member

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    I was hoping for a min of 100 mpg.:confused:
     
    #9 F512M, Apr 29, 2010
  10. Erikon

    Erikon Active Member

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    I would imagine the MPG's will completely depend on the length of the drive. If your daily drive falls within the range of the battery you won't use any gas, unless it goes through the warmup cycle. If you drive a hundred miles you'll only see a modest improvement. Most people will fall somewhere in-between.
     
    #10 Erikon, Apr 30, 2010
  11. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    The GM fans are having this very discussion right now. The more reasonable ones know that 230 mpg is bogus. However it could be infinite (!) in terms of liquid fuel if the driver never went beyond the range of the battery - ever.

    The Leaf obviously is infinite...it uses no liquid fuel.

    But electricity does have a cost associated in charging the battery. How to blend in that cost is the problem for the EPA. As you say most people will fall between infinity and 50-ish mpg. So how should the usage be quantified?

    If you drive [ ] you should get [ ]
    If you drive [ ] you should get [ ]
    If you drive [ ] you should get [ ]

    YMMV or YUsageMV
     
    #11 DeadPhish, Apr 30, 2010
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    With an aftermarket upgrade or very short drives, you still could. But that's not the point.

    Toyota wants heavy market penetration, not a trophy like GM with Volt. That means a configuration which will yield a substantial improvement, yet still be afforadable for the masses.

    Their testing effort is to collect data about real-world performance for that configuration. Having confirmation that 75 MPG is typical will go a long way for effective & speedy rollout afterward.
    .
     
    #12 john1701a, Apr 30, 2010
  13. Erikon

    Erikon Active Member

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    It'll take some creativity on the EPA's part to come up with a sticker for these types of vehicles! More important is a salesperson who will be informed and honest enough to steer customers to the best car for their particular situation. Selling the PHV to someone who drives hundreds of miles a week will only result in a disappointed customer who will no doubt come on PriusChat and whine and rant!:rolleyes:
     
    #13 Erikon, Apr 30, 2010
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Out of curiosity, isn't the EPA test loop 13 miles?
     
    #14 Tideland Prius, Apr 30, 2010
  15. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Weird. I chased the first link, and got something that looks like Latin:
    _H*
     
    #15 hobbit, Apr 30, 2010
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    They need to start using the 'spin' test, offered up for the GM Volt. According to THAT test criteria, it'll get 239mpg !

    :p
     
    #16 hill, Apr 30, 2010
  17. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    It is based on the European homologation combined cycle. Which is roughly equivalent to the pre-2008 EPA cycle.

    Fuel consumption decreased 50% but the CO2 emission dropped only 30% (from 89 g/km to 59 g/km). That indicates Toyota included the CO2 generated from electricity to charge the PHV pack. Way to go!
     
    #17 usbseawolf2000, Apr 30, 2010
  18. clett

    clett New Member

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    Interesting. By using a modular battery pack made up of 2 storage units and 1 HV unit, they can easily add extra storage packs to increase EV range in future models with little engineering difficulty.

    Extra units could even be on the list of factory options (eg 2 extra, 4 extra) etc, with 6.5 miles extra EV range per unit.
     
    #18 clett, Apr 30, 2010
  19. Politburo

    Politburo Active Member

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    They vary from 3.6 to 11 miles.

    Fuel Economy Test Schedules
     
    #19 Politburo, Apr 30, 2010
    1 person likes this.
  20. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Each PHV pack is used in tandem (replaced the ICE) with the HV pack. I bet this is how HSD is implemented in the FCHV (fuel cell). Fuel Cell stack would provide electricity in tandem with the HV pack. Simply replace the FC stack with the PHV pack and you get PHV Prius.

    PHV Prius is really a hybrid of FCHV HSD and a normal Prius HSD.
     
    #20 usbseawolf2000, Apr 30, 2010
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