Nissan Leaf vs Prius

IMHO, the Leaf is a toy for those who have nothing better to do with $32K+. You must stay relatively close to home for fear of draining the battery, especially in severe(cold or hot)weather, when max accessory use is required(heater and/or AC). Is the leaf a fair weather friend? or just a vehicle for the stay at home Mom or Dad, who brings the kids to school and then runs various chores around town! Right now, Nissan cannot even publish numbers for 0-60 mph! I'll keep my GenIII Prius until something really better comes along!!

 

Dude, save yourself the trouble and embarassment of trying to reason with someone for whom logic is a distraction and an encumberance to their dystopian fantasies. (and who doesn't understand half of what I just said)

He's one of these guys with the funny hats:
Tea Party Movement Is Full of Conspiracy Theories - Newsweek.com

 

Your definition of "relatively close to home" sounds a LOT less than a 40-mile radius... But most Americans DO do most of their driving "close to home".

Be aware that you might be the exception, not the rule.

 

That sounds like what they said about the horseless carriage. And it may be true... but the point is that its a good start. ICEs and Prii require petroleum or biofuels. EVs can be powered by petroleum, natural gas, and coal, as well as solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, and nuclear power.

Even 50 miles a day is more than enough for many commuters. And even if its for retirees and soccer moms and dads, that population can absorb quite a few LEAFs.

As for the LEAF's acceleration 0-60 the following article has Nissan's unofficial 9 seconds or so (they may be working on improving that figure, or they may plan to slow it down to increase range?). But for most folks 10 seconds works pretty well.

First Impressions: Nissan Leaf EV Concept | Car Reviews and Auto News by CarReview.com

If no one buys a LEAF, the Coda and the Tesla Model S may not arrive.

 

What Americans need, and what they are willing to buy, are two very different things. We see it here all the time: People saying they won't buy a 100-mile car because of the outside possibility that they may need to make an emergency 150-mile trip on a day when their wife has the gas car.

Toyota and Honda apparently think that consumers won't buy an EV. This is different than saying the EV is unsuitable for those consumers.

The target market for the Tesla Roadster is the sports-car enthusiast. It's the fastest-accelerating car in its price range. But it has only two seats, is not comfortable, and has almost no cargo space.

While a few people would buy it because they want an electric car, the market overlap between the Roadster and the Leaf is minimal.

The ideal buyer of the Leaf is a two-car household whose commute is well enough under 100 miles to allow a buffer (no smart person drives a gas car to dead empty!) and who only needs longer distances for road trips, or if just one of them has a longer commute.

I drive electric because I hate gasoline, I don't want to pay the terrorism tax, I prefer clean transportation over dirty transportation, and I want to promote domestic rather than foreign energy. 100 is miles more than adequate for me in an EV. My present EV has a range of only 40 miles! My Prius is available for road trips (most often to Canada). I'm unusual in being a single person with more than one car, but there are families in a similar situation: They need two cars, but they don't need both of those cars to be long-range. If you own only one car and need to drive more than 75 miles (which allows a 25-mile buffer) then the leaf is not a good choice for you.

The Leaf is not suitable for everybody, which is why they are asking questions about your commute and where you park your car. But it is suitable for a lot of people, for whom it is a better choice than a gasoline car.

 

I just have to clarify- I do know the difference between the Tesla Roadster and a Model S. From my original post regarding bigdog's article written by Tesla's chief marketing officer trashing the LEAF:

 

The Leaf is overpriced considering it is a very limited vehicle and only confirms to me that Toyota is right in saying that all-electric vehicles are not ready for prime time. They are wonderful in theory. I look forward to the day when they are fully capable and affordable cars, which may require a breakthrough in battery technology. And did they have to make it so ugly?

 

Toyota Vehicles : Toyota Maintains Pace, Broadens Scope Of Advanced Environmental Technologies / Toyota

 

The Leaf IS fully capable.
If you disagree, please tell me why it is not and then, give me an example of a vehicle that is 'fully capable'.

 

With the full federal tax credit I would say the Leaf is under priced. There are risks and issues with an all new car with an unknown and different drive train but the car is backed up by a major car company. On the costs side I am sure that it costs more then $25000 to build a Leaf. I know the government is footing part of the bill, but in the end if you qualify for the full credit its a deal.

If the price of gas goes over $4 again the Leaf is gonna be worth more then most paid for it and there will be long wait lists.

 

You must be an engineer in the cold states because I'm not an engineer, but I KNOW the worst thing for an auto battery is HIGH HEAT, such as in the desert. In Ohio, my battery lasted 7-8 years (sometimes below zero) and it wasn't a top-of-the-line one, but in the DRY, HOT summers here, I've yet to have one last even two and a half years (5 batteries!) and that's WITH ALL of them being a top-of-the-line one (3 yr. free replacement/8 yr. pro-rated).

 

I apologize. Somehow I got sidetracked and missed that you were comparing the Leaf to the Tesla Model S. But I'd still say that the S is a car for the BMW crowd, while the Leaf is a car for the Camry crowd. The very fact of being twice the price puts the S in a somewhat different market.

I disagree about the price. For the FIRST fully-functional freeway-capable, 5-passenger family EV (the Rav4EV is an SUV, and the S-10 was a pickup, and the EV-1 was a two-seater) this price is spectacular! The car has a range longer than I'll ever use except for road trips, and some features and gadgets that even my '04 Prius does not have. AND IT USES NO GAS!!!

As for ugly, all cars are ugly. They're transportation, not fashion accessories.

... well... I once saw a Maybach roadster; THAT was a beautiful car.

 

Amen

 

so, after 400+ posts, can we all agree that the Leaf

1) fills a need that is currently unfilled
2) not for everyone
3) complements rather than opposes all other current or soon to be available EVS

now some will argue the Tesla sedan out in less than 2 years would be a competitor, but i think not. its not a "luxury" version of the Leaf category. its much more expensive, but at the same time, its much more car. its a lot bigger, built by a company with a proven track record and the extra range is significant.

since i have an EV and have been shopping for a highway speed EV for ever (ok, maybe it just seems that way!!) i have been tracking trips i have made in both my Pri's and my EV.

the 100 mile range (i actually figured it at 80 miles since not willing to push it that far) if ignoring planned quick charge stations, would have not have covered about 5.5% of my trips over the past 2 years. but a 250 mile range would have only fallen short less than 1.5% so that is a better than 3 to 1 improvement. which is a lot.

also, a "5" passenger (which probably equates to 4 adults) is hugely different than a 7 passenger vehicle with pretty snazzy high end electronics. either way, we are talking a family sedan with a lot of extra storage for camping, luggage, etc. something the Leaf does not have.

but then again, that is a whole point of this. its not for every one, but the average 2 driver family, it will probably work fine. i am not giving up my Prius (well, not giving up both of them) i am complementing my Pri with an extended range EV.

 

Not that I'm a Leafer, but I would note that the $49,900 (after $7500 credit you may or may not get), only gets you a 160 mile range. The Tesla site doesn't say how much extra for the 230 and 300 mile range battery packs. Also its 5 adults and 2 children in rear facing child seats.

That being said, it does look great. I hope it does well and that they can exceed their 20,000 vehicle per year target.

BTW, I wouldn't count on the 17inch infotainment screen on the Tesla site, since NHTSA Administrator Strickland is determined to ban those along with making both hybrids and EVs as noisy as ICE vehicles.