Well you can Google Toyota dealership near Chicago, and you'll see that most of the Chicagoland dealerships have 1.5-2.5 stars (out of 5). There's a reason for that. Now that you mention it, I don't think we've ever spoken to any tech of any kind between 3 different dealerships. They were too busy trying to upsell the customers on BS dealer packages - like the cabbie who (one time) came in after me who basically had to yell at the service writer that he didn't want to get the air filter replaced (because he was going to do it himself). Having to deal with this dealer BS is enough with one car. I will never buy another that I have to bring to their dealership. As a result, I'm not suprised to see threads like this: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...-price-gouging-servicing-650-oil-filters.html and http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...00-mile-service-cost-me-almost-400-bucks.html. SSDD - Same [insert expletive here] Different Dealership. EDIT: I wish I was in California so that I could bring my car to Luscious Garage. I imagine that the experience would be significantly better and I would be happier. The HHR is the worst car I have ever driven.
I call strawman argument. How much Chinese content is in GM vehicles exported to China? More appropriate comparison is how much US content is in Toyotas built in the US.
People say a lot of things, many don't realize they are saying things they don't truly believe. I remember that in the last election. Most of these people Toyota was probably always dead to them but they feel better now that they have a better reason than "I hate those Japanese cars, taking our jobs, etc." Similarly many would never buy a GM or a Ford. And who here, really, would buy a Chrysler? From what I can tell Chrysler is dead to about 90% of the country.
No I am an american and depend on the US economy for my livelihood and so do most of the people I care about. The fact is that there are only a handful of companies in the world that are more detrimental( negative balance of payments) to the US economy than Toyota. If you must know China only allows foreign companies to own a minority share of a company. As part of this agreement all technology used in cars and trucks built and sold in china must be shaared with the chinese. Following these rules to their logical conclusion(not just autos) eventually every car, electronic, appliance will be manufactured in China and the rest of us will be part of the chinese empire. I know that my commments are kind of out there, but what will stop Chinese mercantilism other than 'protectionism"? It is business cared for and supported by the state.
you are right, Chrysler has been left for dead, it will just take awhile fo rthe vultures to get to it.
I still don't understand where you come up with that http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_press_release/ft900.pdf Scroll down to page 11. Industrial supplies, Consumer Goods, and Capital Goods make up a far larger proportion of total imports than automobiles For example, the 2009 Balance of Payments basis, total imports are 1,562,588. Automobiles make up 159,971
I'd buy a Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR.... Chrysler got bought by Cerberus, a private equity firm (aka the vultures). It appears that the company is now killing the vultures that are going at it.
Yes, the vultures already got Chrysler. They picked the bones clean. The Jeep brand might be the only thing of value left.
malorn; thanks for providing the stats that illustrate that Japanese car buyers make the right choice more often by more than a 10 to 1 margin (shown when illustrating the # of cars purchased by type in Japan with comparative figures of same brands purchased in the US) although i venture to say that if employee discount programs were not available, the ratio would probably be only about 7 or 8 to 1. now, you went along way to point how many Japanese cars are sold in the US, but fail to point out overall sales of either Ford or GM. is it not true that both companies sell nearly half the vehicles they make to other countries? what about GM sales in Europe? u present the #'s like we are traitors to our country for buying a Toyota. u would rather we buy junk or something other than a vehicle that best suits our needs only because it has an American nameplate on it? i am sorry, but that is not a good enough reason for me. i also dont appreciate the way that GM has treated this country, its employees or the cities that have given GM a ton of tax concessions and incentives only to have GM turn their back on them and walk out. slapping a car together is not even ¼ of the picture. a $20,000 car has a supply line worth 4 times that. how much of that supply line is US based? as far as answers to any of these questions, its all really a moot point. it really does not matter where the cars come from, where they are built or what country benefits the most from me buying it. GM and Toyota are in a competitive market where consumers are the only ones gambling with cash. to lessen the risk, they get the best option out there and its rarely the cheapest option. Toyotas are not cheap. in most cases they cost more and people are not in the habit of wasting their money. so if GM wants to do better, well they have to simply do better. i will not under any circumstances whatsoever, make a pity purchase of a vehicle in the name of mom, apple pie or any other -let.
On my 5 mile GenIII test drive, we passed by a GenII stranded on the side of the road; the driver outside the car looking very puzzled. The salesman looked at me and said "you didn't see that." My opinion is that GM is and has been dead to well over 50% of Americans anyway (even though we all own about $200 of the company now).
Reading this thread I thought I'd give you guys some links to get some actual facts on cars produced by country up to 2008 :OICA Production Statistics Also this thread was missing some of the other % from the Bloomberg poll..When considering buying a car, people viewed Toyota as a : 44% Def not ,would not rule out 31%, strongly consider 16%, Definitely buy 8%. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiJ-NDksIqo"]YouTube - Shkolnik Expects Toyota to Fight Proposed U.S. Fines: Video[/ame] Favorable rating Bloomberg U.S poll : Toyota 49%, Chrysler/Hyundai 48 % ,GM 57%, Nissan 58%, Honda 70% , Ford 77% My observations, at 8% definitely buy , and at a 49% favorable rating it seems that Toyota and some of you here is misconstruing the rise in sales to loyal customers. Where this sudden rise is really attributed to opportunistic buyers jumping on a deal. These opportunistic buys is no different then one going out for lunch on a busy ave. and decide to buy hamburgers for lunch because they are on sale for $1 .The decision was made because of the realization it was a good deal and not because of loyalty. Loyalists are the big minority that were going there to buy it at $5 . Those of you that disagree, here is a fact that should be based solely on customer loyalty(No 0% financing, no below sticker prices, no free maintenance for 2 years ),based on a familiar arrogant sales pitch, before the recalls "We sell great quality cars here that people want, we don't need to do that , those companies they need to give those incentives , they can't sell any cars without them !!" Loyal Customers, before incentives: FEB 2010 sales - a little over 100,000 Toyota recalls hurt its sales, but Ford and others gain / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com FEB 2009 sales - a little over 109,000 FEB 2008 sales - a little over 182,000 Toyota Reports February 2008 Sales | Auto Spectator FEB 2007 sales - a little over 194,000 The fact is , had Toyota had so many loyal followers , they wouldn't have been the only auto company taking a dive in FEB 2010 sales.Where everybody else rebounded from a disastrous FEB 2009 results, when banks were going bankrupt,massive foreclosures, people were not spending for fear of losing their job and people's 401k was being cut in 1/2 . I walked into a Ford dealer the other day, the guy told me ""We sell great quality cars here that people want, we don't need to do that , that company they need to give those incentives , they can't sell any cars without them !!"
I agree, but I am talking market share. You don't think the US can create jobs by increasing its trade deficit? What a shock. We are lead by complete and utter morons.
There is at least one US auto maker that must like what is going in China a lot... In fact, their continued existence may well depend on it. On Nov. 11, 2009, a Wall Street Journal article. reported: "... GM's sales are expected to have doubled in China in the third quarter from a year earlier and are now running neck and neck with the Detroit auto maker's U.S. sales. "The company's 478,000 vehicle sales in China helped GM remain a relevant player on the global auto stage, and—more importantly— provided much-needed profit for GM's international operation, according to a person familiar with the results. The country now accounts for at least 25% of GM's global sales, compared with 10% a year ago. "But for GM Chief Executive Frederick "Fritz" Henderson, the most positive story lies in China, where government-sponsored sales incentives and the popularity of the Wuling microvan venture GM partially owns lifted the company's auto sales 34% in the first nine months of this year compared with a year earlier. GM's share of the China market has increased as well, climbing to 13.4% in the third quarter from 12% a year earlier and cushioning the company's lead over its rivals. "GM's China business, which wasn't included in bankruptcy proceedings in the U.S., is composed of a web of ventures with Chinese auto makers. Profit is spread across those partnerships and to other parts of GM's organization, such as GM-Daewoo in South Korea. "The car maker doesn't include Chinese vehicle sales in its revenue, and the business isn't a source of cash to rebuild operations elsewhere in the world, but profit from the China ventures flows to GM's bottom line. GM doesn't break out results for its China unit..." OMG, it's Gumint Motors! As citizen-shareholders, shouldn't we see this as a good thing as it reduces the time period before GM goes public again and during which we have/do/will pay ~$12K for each GM vehicle sold?
No, I do not. But we are no longer relevant on the global stage. "American" companies like GM, HP, IBM, etc, will increasingly look to China and India for sales
I'm always surprised by what our European Union friends forgive us for, except for the Polish who forgive no one.
