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Portable generator vs Prius Inverter

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Generator Springs A Leak, Loses Feet - Made by Monkeys | Blog on Design News

    In contrast:
    Prius - UPS Project

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. Joe166

    Joe166 New Member

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    That is really kind of silly. Every product has examples that have failed. Even Toyota's. I have owned at least 35 generators in my life (you live near hurricanes and you make sure you have a power source), and I have never had a catastrophic failure like that. Of course, I have not owned a Coleman for many, many years, at least since I could afford better.
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Now that you mention it, I have seen many gensets with that "gas on the roof" design. Maybe it is less than ideal. Anyway, call me paranoid (or worse) but I would not pour fuel into a genset and pull the rope w/o first convincing myself that it probably would not blow up.

    OTOH, it has been pointed out here an several ocassions that using Prius in this way is not without its own set of risks. So, everybody just be careful out there. Especially with explosives and high voltage.
     
  4. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    You didn't buy one of the Honda inverter-type units. 'Nuff said.
    .
    _H*
     
  5. Joe166

    Joe166 New Member

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    Those Honda gensets are amazing, but they aren't big enough. I want all the comforts of home, now that I can afford it. Whole house is worth the trouble. I have less than fond memories for 23 days after Hurricane Andrew of sleeping on the floor of my living room so I could 1) guard my house with all the open windows and 2) get awakened when the gas ran out of the emergency generator to go refuel so the wife and kids could sleep with fans in the August heat. We were the last house in our neighborhood to get power back. Now I can go for 4 days using everything in my house (well, not all at the same time).

    I have a friend who needs a c-pap machine to breathe properly at night and he has a small Honda generator to power it just in case and it has worked flawlessly each time he has needed it. Coleman is not the Rolls Royce (or even Honda) of generators, but it is usually decent for the price you pay.
     
  6. Rhino

    Rhino New Member

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    For me, it is either a Honda generator or the Prius. The other generators are just too noisy. After a while, your neighbors will complain - at least my ___ neighbors. I guess it depends on where you live.
     
  7. DetPrius

    DetPrius Active Member

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    I have a Coleman Powermate which aside from running monthly to exercise, I have used for around 40 hours with no problem. I know it doesn't produce power nearly as clean as the Honda inverter generators, which are very expensive for a 5k-6k unit. I can say all it takes is one power outage during a 10 degree night to make the cost of the generator and the whole house hookup well worth the cost!

    I've wondered if the natural gas permanently installed units produce power as clean as the Honda inverter or do they produce "dirty" power more along the lines of the Coleman...
     
  8. Rhino

    Rhino New Member

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    I love Honda generators.

    However, you should keep in mind that clean power is not always needed. Your transformer has a coil which functions to remove spikes. For that matter, the motor has a coil too. Your laptop uses a transformer and may have a little coil (the little thick part of the cable). Other household things may be fine with so call dirty power. A power supply is basically something that converts dirty AC, with a 192 volt spike 60 times a second to clean DC at 12 volts (just an example) with no spikes. 110 volts is RMS volts, actual voltage is closer to 190.

    The manufacturers tend to hype the clean power business a lot. Of course, clean power is probably better. You can always use an isolation transformer (110 volts in, 110 volts out) to clean the power. It may be cheaper than buying a better generator.
     
  9. DetPrius

    DetPrius Active Member

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    Thanks Rhino. I had to adjust the sensitivity on my UPS for the computer so it works with the generator. Previously it continually flipped back and forth between its own battery and the line (generator) power. I also noticed the microwave cooks slower and sounds different when on the generator. The main reason I've wondered about this though is the increasing use of electronics in almost everything from furnaces to appliances to the water softener. Is the risk of frying something with a cheap generator significantly higher than with a Honda generator?
     
  10. jcsweeney

    jcsweeney New Member

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    I just got offered a great deal on a 2010.

    How does the 2010 12v system differ from the gen 2 system. I already ran my house from my 2004 for a while in a power outage (the inverter is still hooked up from last december).

    Thanks, John
     
  11. whitney0125

    whitney0125 New Member

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    Oh no that's a bit dangerous! so the powermate coleman generator only works for 3 hours and then begin to pour some gasoline. I think what you had bought is one of the factory defect product.

    __________________
    free energy generator
     
  12. eluo

    eluo Member

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    Question for those that uses the Prius as a generator during power outage. Do you leave the Prius AC on in the summer to cool the traction battery or is opening the window enough?
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Good question. I've not measured the traction battery temperature, charge and discharge loads, yet. I'll try to do it on the next outage or power test. I've never heard the traction battery fan come on and of course in the winter, there is no problem. Cracked windows would be a good idea but all 12 V accessories should be OFF including the AC fans.

    Worst case, we are looking at an average 1 kW drain and probably ~3 kW charge, these are modest loads. In my case, the trunk is open to help cool the inverter so there is plenty of ambient air. Sun shades would be a good idea anytime.

    The AC inverter runs warm so plenty of air flow around it is advised. They do have a cooling fan but that just exhausts heat so they still need a source of ambient air. Check the manufacturer's specs for the thermal range.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. OZ132

    OZ132 Member

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    Can you give more details on the hook up? Is this approved by Toyota?
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    It is not "Toyota Approved" but then my 2003 Prius is out of warranty:

    Prius - UPS Project

    I probably won't modify my wife's Prius until the 3/36000 warranty expires. I believe that warranty covers the 12 VDC system so there won't be any issues. We have 11,000 miles on her car.

    For my wife's car, I want to make it a 'plug in' system. The inverter would not have to be in the car all the time. Yet I still want it to provide cabin, 110 VAC to the front. I'll probably do an inverter with a higher surge capacity and may provide a stiffening capacitor, surge power system. Alternatively, I may swap out the 12 V battery. I might also go with a pure sine-wave unit even though the costs are 4x, $400 vs $100.

    One 'wild card' would be to find out if the AC compressor voltages and frequencies are in the 120 V, 60 Hz range. If so, this could be a very nice solution providing kilowatts of power for the price of a connector and some glue logic. <wink>

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. Joe166

    Joe166 New Member

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    You're kidding, right?

    Why in the world would Toyota "approve" this? With all the litigious folks around here they would be crazy to even formally approve driving their cars on public roads.

    And then people wonder why they can't watch DVD's while driving!
     
  17. rcf@eventide.com

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    Toyota actually did a demo project in Japan where they used the traction battery to provide 3kW of household power. If you're interested in getting more power than approximately 1kW that the 12V system can provide, see PriUPS.com . I've used this system a number of times during power outages. I recommend 3kW maximum average power, but one benefit of the traction battery and a large inverter is that it can provide much greater peak power for starting motor loads such as the furnace and the well pump.

    Richard
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm a great fan of Richard's site and approach. My only problem has been finding the internal DC buss voltage spec for different UPS units. The UPS folks appear to be tight-lipped about their internal schematics.

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. Randy B

    Randy B Member

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    It seems noone remembers ConVerdant Vehicles and their PlugOut inverters. Well, now reopening as PlugOut Power.