Could it be a sabotage using EMI?

This is actually a very interesting idea. EMI is easy to generate, and extremely difficult to trace.

It'd be fun to start rumors of a government conspiracy, since EMI generators are common devices is sci-fi and spy movies, like James Bond.

SCENE: (In a hollowed out volcano.) After a hostile takeover, the evil head of GM is causing random failures in Toyota vehicles, purposefully placing innocent citizens in jeopardy, as part of a global plot to discredit his competition.

Geez, it does sound like a 007 plot line, doesn't it?

Chuck

 

Conspiracy theorists of the world unite.

 

It is very unlikely. Toyota does test all of the electronic parts and complete vehicles for the effects of external and internal EMI.

Toyota Vehicles : Video Library / Toyota

 

Toyota does test parts for EMI

 

Glad to see others are considering a great conspiracy theory. I always thought this from mid Jan. I thought the U.S. Government only lent a billion or two to GM. Just found out its 60 plus billion from Government Motors! Conspiracy QED!!!

 

You can keep your prius safe from this by installing a tin foil hat over each ecu.

 

Interesting link.
A video titled Electronic Throttle Control at this site gives some detail of the prius throttle, and discusses care for electro magnetic radiation at around 2:45 of this video.
Toyota Vehicles : Video Library / Toyota

Best promo for electronic throttle systems I've seen.
This video talks of Toyota systems in general, is the description of duplicate sensors true for the prius?

 

Hi All,

The Navy is in San Diego, and has radars that operate mostly in the Ham Bands (why we have ham bands actually). Its signal strengths from emiters such as this that would be neccassary to EMI cars at a distance such as the spacing from limited access highway roadway and the closes the radars could be to the roadway.

The long range radars are said to be on the lower end of the 420 to 450 MHz band, and are Pulse Radars and are operated on occasion from ships in port, and from shore stations (that look out to sea). Such frequencies would not be effectively shielded by the structure of the car.

The Radars sweep across the azimuth. So, the the EMI would occur say with a 30 second period, for a few seconds at a time.

This does not match the reported failure mode, unless the front end of an electronic devices, or sensor was actually destroyed by the RF energy. Which would take horrendous effective radiated power with the cabling in the car being just the right length for resonance and I think is unlikely. Radio waves spread out even with the highest gain antennas rather rapidly once they leave the antenna. In order to acheive flash-light like radiation patterns at 400 MHz, whould require the Areciebo Radio Telescope dish antenna, which is 100 s of meters across and has been used as a planetary radar. These Navy radars are just not that big.

As the acceleration incidents do not have the on briefly, then off for 30 to 60 second time, then on again briefly, characteristic, its unlikely its EMI from Radars. And lower frequencies used by AM broadcasting would not easily get within the car. FM antennas are much smaller, and radiate only from the vacinity of the top of a tower, or building. Same with TV Broadcast stations. These antennas effectively focus their energy on the horizon, not straight down, and also being spread out over the whole horizon (which makes it weaker at any one point on the horizon). So the field strength at roadway level below broadcast towers is unlikely going to be anywhere strong enough to effect anything in the cars. Certainly much weaker than the Navy Radars.

 

There are these 2 possibilities, if and only if EMI is the problem. There are many reasons why systems fail, some due to design defects, and some due to simple accidents.

I'd be more included to believe that there is an extremely unlikely convergence of input signals that generates an error in the ECU programming. Something like IF radio tuned to 1200AM AND air conditioning=off AND throttle speed >=20mph AND etc, then it generates an unexpected logical error.

This would also explain why only the North American Toyotas seem to be showing these symptoms...despite using the same part, the software is likely customized for each market.

It does not, however, explain "the pedal is pushed down on its own" in the recent California acceleration spectacle. And, besides, the government conspiracy just "feels" closer to right.

I wonder if he was driving by a Military induction center, maybe a Democrat's office, or even better yet an ACORN office, at the time of his incident. Surely any of these would welcome the installation of an EMI generator in their offices. XD

Chuck

 

EMI / RF interference has crossed my mind, literally. We are all bombarded and irradiated daily by several devices around us. The only thing that might be somewhat weird could be the addition of radiation scanners for vehicles as they pass certain sensors in the road. Since 9/11, maybe there have been some planted on the highways for Homeland Security purposes. Maybe when a prius drives past an 18 wheeler with a CB radio, amplifier and an echo mic, it causes RFI, EMI, etc.

Being a ham operator, I am fully aware of all of the noise and RFI that the Prius generates on it's own. What kind of other radio frequency remote control devices do we drive past everyday? Could it be that some sensors are just backscatter machines, or are actually very powerful x-ray devices looking into the trunks of vehicles for illegal aliens stowed on-board any or all types of vehicles?

Even truck drivers have transponders on some of their trucks that are bathed in RF at sensors along the road to read data and activate load sensors in the roadway. The whole thing sounds at least plausible. Does Japan have the same type of radiation and nuclear sensors in some of their roadways? Do they have one rogue truck driver over there with an illegal CB amplifier and echo mic? Does everyone and their brother have some sort of bluetooth device dangling from their dongles?

We now return control of your television set. We control the vertical, we control the horizontal. Spooky corporate monsters abound in shadowy dark spaces of the free market..... (sinister laugh, fade to black) pour the martinis....

 

There was a little more detailed video that was part of a Toyota presentation on ETCS last week, but unfortunately, I do not know the link to the presentation. It is there somewhere on the Toyota site. They showed the lab where they do complete vehicle testing and described some of the methods, but the data that you are asking for is probably considered to be proprietary to Toyota.

 

I can substantiate and tell you for a fact that the several times the keyless entry/keyless ignition has not worked in my Prius have only occurred when I parked my car at work at the Point Loma Submarine Base with an aircraft carrier passing by. The smaller ships don't have this effect, but every single time a carrier goes by, I have to break out my manual key.

 

Do you have -any- idea how strong an EMI signal you would have to generate to damage the electronics in the Prius? You'd need a VERY large truck to carry it! The Prius shields almost all of its' electronic systems, both by the metal body and by further shielding inside. Not even the EMI pulse from a nuclear weapon will damage vehicle electronics, in spite of the BS Hollywood would have you believe!
Yes, you can -interfere- with RF receivers and cause them to not recognize signals they should. You CAN'T damage them! Unless you get ridiculous.

If it were so easy, don't you think every police car would have an EMI generator to stop those running from them?

 

I'm convinced that its not very likely, probably the odds are about the same as experiencing an unintended acceleration event in your own car. :madgrin: