Did you consider a Jetta TDI before going Prius?

We've tried to engage in a requirements analysis in the past with the diesel missionaries and ultimately, it comes down to:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5
0	requirement	best	source
1	fuel economy	Prius	EPA user reports	Fuel Economy
2	safety	Prius	lower insurance costs	NHTSA	IIS
3	reliabiity	Prius	Consumer Reports user survey
4	emissions	Prius	California Air Resources Board executive reports
5	space	Prius	family sedan vs compact car	EPA rating
6	handling	Jetta	various car mags	Consumer Reports score

Handling rates high to Jetta advocates.

I would recommend heading over to the Edmunds forum for Toyota Prius and you'll find a small, core of Jetta missionaries trying to sell TDI vehicles. It is interesting that citing empirical sources seems to have little to no impact on the Jetta advocates.

Bob Wilson

 

Well, I considered a Jetta, but didn't get one. I wanted:

- good economy: It'd be my commuter and the family car. I drive at <= PSL, wife <= PSL + 5
- low emissions
- price <= 25k all in
- hatchback with room >= Civic
- reliable

Prius wins.

However, for a leadfoot I know (80-85 on the interstate) I'd recommend a diesel.

 

No, I never considered a Jetta TDI.
First, this whole "German Engineering" propaganda that VW markets means nothing to me.
I think this greener diesel is like "Clean Coal". It's still a dirty option.
I have seen too many VW's with mechanical problems after 40,000 miles.

 

The day I got my Prius I had planned to go to the VW dealer next and Honda last (to try the Insight). Let's just say I never got out of the Toyota dealer and now not a single regret in hindsight.

Part of me wanted to give clean diesel a shot as I am intrigued by it and I have seen TDI's advertised by the local newspapers for low ~$23K but I was really blown away by what the Prius offered. Plus the lines of a blizzard one are just absolutely gorgeous.

 

Hi Bob, the problem with a requirements analysis is that different people have different requirements. The Prius seems to meet most people's requirements better, however the Jetta can meet some people's requirements better than the Prius. This may be why your empirical sources have little impact. It's not that they are invalid. It's simply because others may not have the same criteria when evaluating a car. For example, a number of journalists seem to like the Jetta as much or more than the Prius. I doubt that they are all Jetta advocates, but rather, simply enjoyed some things about the Jetta more. I also noticed that the Golf TDI did quite well in Consumer Reports recently, even though it may still lose to the Prius based on your criteria. Consumer Reports are probably not Golf advocates.

Personally, my requirements differ from the ones you have and are met about equally as well by the 2010 Prius and Golf.

I'm curious why you rate the Prius safer than the Jetta. The IIHS rates both as good in front and side crash tests. The Jetta is a Top Safety Pick, while the Prius is not. NHTSA gives the Prius 4/4/5/4/4 stars, while the Jetta gets 4/4/5/5/4. To me, it seems like they are close to equal with a possible edge for the Jetta.

 

You didn't say what year your VW was. Mine is a 2010 TDI Jetta and now has 5300 miles and the oil level is still full to the top of the stick. It's NOT normal to burn that much oil.........where would you come up with that info?

Anyhow, enough here. This is a Prius forum anyway. You might want to check the TDI forum as to why your VW used so much oil. Good luck with your Toyota.

 

Since I was raged on for supposedly pimping out my VW on this site.......even though the title of this site would suggest my posting was not out of character I thought I would return the favor.

Here is a thread I posted on the VW TDI site: Check it out, we're no different than you guys when it comes to our pick of rides. It's just our reasons for picking are not the same as yours. Like herein there is some good reading to be found there.

Did you consider a Prius when buying your TDI? - TDIClub Forums

 

I see totally different reasons for picking there. The theme I get is "I did not consider Prius because xxx reason I heard on the internet" or "I only buy VW or german engineering".

Some likes to get dirty, others pick TDI for handling. There were no mention of low emission, size difference or maintenance.

I see majority of the posts are either unaware of Prius V or the 48MPG highway fuel economy. Some fell into the misconception of Prius being a city car and probably never driven one before.

Here in Prius Chat, ppl actually did the homework and researched carefully.

 

This one was my favorite

And a close second...

 

No, no, no, this is not right. Anyone with half a brain would instantly realize that if you had testicles you wouldn't be buying a Prius. They can't cut off what you don't have.

Tom

 

I did deeply consider VW TDi's in both Jetta a Golf flavors. Ultimately though one thing made me return soundly and confidently to the Prius.

The Prius represents a shift from normal fuel motoring to electric hybrid. Its not prefect by any stretch at present and a transitional mode of transport. However, to gain acceptance in the main stream and encourage car manufacturers to innovate and strive toward mass produced and cheap alternative fuel vehicles, it needs consumer support.

My buying a Prius shows support for that movement. Here in Australia Prius numbers are low with 4,000 in total on the roads. The V6 and V8 are still king here as fuel is relatively cheap still. A shift is slowly changing in mentality and buying a Prius makings me part of that revolution.

The excellent fuel consumption is just a bonus. The technology of the vehicle is a plus. It's being part of the general acceptance of alternative fuels.

 

Technically we would assign different 'weights' to the same requirements. Everyone gets the same set of requirements but change the weighting to:

-2 - horrible, ugh
-1 - not a desirable requirement
0 - neutral requirement
+1 - desirable requirement
+2 - very desirable
​

The weak "green" of many diesel missionaries leads to them being so ineffective when they try to use "green" as 'magic words' to club the Prius. They never really had an interest, which means they lack the facts and data ... the shield of truth.

Over in the Edmunds thread, as an experiment, I went to "Progressive" last week and requested a quote for:

• 2010 Prius
• 2010 TDI (I forgot if Jetta or Golf)

It turns out the Progress quote had the Prius cheaper. Not a lot but enough to call it less expensive to insure and by implication safer. Understand, the TDI advocates over there are ... less strict in their understanding of empirical data. So who am I to not enjoy a little fun at their expense? <GRINS>

I would do a FARS analysis but the TDIs have been in such small numbers, I suspect the cumulative miles might be difficult make a statistically significant sampling. Still, if you have annual sales of the Jetta style vehicles and we could lump gas and diesel, we could take a stab at it.

Bob Wilson

 

The problem still remains that not all requirements are considered. To say it comes down to only the six factors you mentioned is a stretch. Appearance, towing capacity, fun to drive, comfort, NVH, cost, and many more items could all be important to a shopper. Not all will matter to everybody, but their six (or more) factors could be completely different than the ones you listed. I know some people who won't consider a Prius because of the way it looks, or some that won't buy a Jetta because it doesn't have power seats.

To say the Prius is safer because its insurance costs are lower is also a stretch. I'm sure you know that insurance is based on many factors, such as owner profile, how the vehicle is expected to be driven, theft rates, and undoubtedly many more. For example, a Subaru WRX is more expensive to insure than an Impreza, a Mazdaspeed 3 is more expensive than a Mazda3, a GTI is more expensive than a Golf, and so on. The more expensive vehicles in those examples have better tires, brakes, and handling so in theory they are better at avoiding accidents. Safety features are the same. A major difference is how the vehicle is expected to be driven, and I suspect the more expensive vehicles from each pair have higher accident rates. It is not because the vehicles are inherently unsafe, but rather the people that drive them.

As a more extreme example, a 2001 Golf GTI would be more expensive for me to insure than a 2001 Cavalier, yet the Cavalier has terrible crash test scores.

So much goes into calculating insurance rates that they seem to be a poor choice to determine safety. You seem to be quite focused on data so I am surprised you would go for information so polluted by many other factors instead of data from the IIHS and NHTSA.

Vehicle sales numbers can usually be found on the manufacturer's media sites. If you can find the December sales numbers on media.vw.com, it should have the year-to-date sales, which would basically be the entire year.

 

My Prius is extremely expensive to insure because of its replacement value, not because of safety or car history (other driver's rating)

 

2003 VW Golf GL. I loved the car, but the car wasn't super reliable like most Japanese cars I have had. As I said before, I love the TDI. I just don't think it is worth the money given the Prius is a more attractive option at the same price. If they had told me the TDI was $20-21K (plus the tax credit) out the door instead of the $23K I paid for the Prius, I probably would have gone for it. Remember automatic is also a $1200 option on the VW.

My lease is up on our 3rd vehicle, we only want to spend $20K taxed for our next car. If I can get a TDI for $20K, they would get my money tomorrow. Of course I think they want 23 or 24K for those things, no thanks.

 

What does "Most people don't drive that sorry" mean? Are you asserting people drive faster or slower than that? The speed limit here in WA state on many of the highways is only 60 mph.

Per Fuel Economy Test Schedules, the average speed on the highway portions of the test are 48.3 and 48.4 mph. You can read more about the EPA tests at http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...uth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.html.

 

What a ridiculous statement that was about cutting off your testicles when you buy a Prius. The Prius is the best car that I have ever owned. My only regret is that sometimes I wished I opted for a level III.

 

Did I forget the sarcasm flags again? I'll try to remember the [sarcasm]...[/sarcasm] next time.

:doh:

Oh shoot, I forgot them again!

Tom

 

Go easy on the newbs. They will soon come to realize that ALL your posts come with an invisible sarcasm flag embedded in them. At least the old-timers on PC have figured that out.

 

I thought only truck/SUV owners cut off their ball and hang it on the rear trailer hitch.