Brake fix didn't work!!!!

Maybe you could show the service manager what you are experiencing by driving on that same pot hole (if not far away from the dealer)? Just a suggestion.

 

Likewise, it's premature to assume that it should be completely eliminated, as the OP is doing.

Your Ford didn't have regenerative brakes. Fords that do are experiencing similar issues.

 

I'm looking for a bumper sticker: "My Other Car is a Pinto". This is for real.
Ttfuzz

 

I'm looking for one that says "My car is not the broken model"

 

Attitude?

Bad programmers?

Underspeced the components?

All is pure speculation.

Part of the reason could be toyota thinks the car should be smarter than the driver. In my previous lexus the vsc was overly agressive. That's fine on a normal comute, but bad when pushing. The equivalant bmw waits until the driver is starting to get into trouble before kicking in. The bmw's attitude is better, but the lexus had an off switch. So no problem. VSC was agressive when I didn't care, and off when I didn't want it. The prius doesn't have an off switch because the hsd can't handle bad situations.

The programers probably heard it was a safety system and wanted it to be as safe as possible. Unfortunately they didn't understand that turning a safety system on early takes control away from the driver and often makes it less safe. There also is a bug in the transition, so that switch from driver control to car control is more noticable and feels worse. Sensors have a probabalistic curve of firing, so when programming a decission has to be made about false positives (ABS kicks in when not needed) versus false negatives (ABS does not kick when it should). I would think false positives are more dangerous (car does somehting different than the driver wants) since the vsc should notice if the car is out of control (moving different than steering inputs).

THey may be over aggive because there is a quality problem in some of the components. That is components that are slightly out of spec and would wear earlier if stressed more. If the transition was better drivers would not notice this. Less expensive components (weaker lighter transaxle that cant take the torque, less tollerant inverter that can not handle spikes as well, etc.) would still have high reliability.

It doesn't happen to many of us that often, so I expect a bug and bad software design are most likely.

 

Great Post.

What it sounds like to me, none of us really know right now what the expected behavior should be as defined by Toyota

I'd love if Toyota came out and said that some small delay is to be expected under certain circumstances, so then we would not speculate.

Alternatively, they could say the opposite and tell us all that we should not notice any noticeable pause and if you do, please let us know..

.

 

Are all drivers above average???

In the past several years I've noticed that most drivers seem to drive the same way (fast and somewhat reckless) no matter what the vehicle, road, and weather conditions. There seems to be an attitude that technology (complex suspension, ABS, and VSC, for example) will compensate for all driving conditions and bad driver habits. Technology can help compensate for poor conditions but is clearly is no panacea. I'm beginning to think that the biggest problem is in the heads of drivers, not the automobile.

Keith

 

All this technology has reduced the natural selection pressures that used to make drivers more cautious.

 

Only 3 or 4 times in 10 years? I intentionally activate my Subaru's ABS that many times on a single descent from the ski hills as a test of road traction conditions.

Due to the very warm winter here, my Prius has had little opportunity for ABS tests. The only preliminary feel is that I'm surprised who well it has gripped, without any obvious ABS feel, over typical slick spots (paint stripes and polished tar) in heavy rain.

 

(As a UCLA alum) I can't speak to the OP's repro spot, but there's only one Strathmore around UCLA. Yet, the roads are in pretty cruddy shape around there and as you've noticed, it's quite hilly.

 

Knowing how software upgrades work (look at Microsoft for example), that a "fix" would be available right away might be a temporary resolution, but may not ultimately resolve the entire problem. For example, Toyota has something that works via a software update. It may not be the exact fix that we're looking for, but it's a fix to the original problem none the less. Call this software patch v.1.1 for example. Next thing you know it, Toyota will find out more results from their R&D testing on this v.1.1 patch and eventually come up with a v.1.2 patch, and so on until they ultimately find a 99.9% fix to the original problem (which may be on v.3.1 for example).

This is just a generic example of how software updates working in real world applications. Toyota may not go through this, but it's always a possibility. Which brings me to the point, if your car really isn't a hazzard for you to drive right now and the brakes issue is something that you can live with, would it be worth it to give Toyota some time for a software update that will completely fix the problem? Or would you rather jump in now and have whatever update done and hope that fixes your problem? Maybe Toyota's current fix is the real fix, but to me I'm willing to drive cautiously for a little while until I know the 'fix' is a permanent resolution to this recall.

A little off topic, but that's my take on this recall.

 

I don't think there will be a version 2 of the fix. The 2011 Toyotas may have version 2 but I think it is absolutely suicidal for Toyota to issue another recall or service campaign. It will also be very bad for a reporter to find out that the first fixes were not as good as the fixes 3 months from now. Could you imagine the headlines "car still not safe" "2nd recall" "first fix defective" Congressional hearings, "when did you know the first fix was defective and why didn't you issue another recall?

But that is just my thoughts. Your guess is as good as mine

 

I sense a Bobwilson's fabulous poll in the making!

Something like:

Have you performed the recall?

• Yes, I did
• No, I didn't (but will perform ASAP)
• No, I didn't (my Prius came with the new firmware from the factory)
• No, I didn't (my brakes are fine)

Are you satisfied with the fix?

• Yes, the brake issue has completely disappeared
• Yes, the brake issue is way less noticeable, but still somehow present
• Partially, the brake issue is still present but only slightly less noticeable. I feel a little bit safer now.
• No, the brake issue is only slightly less noticeable but I'm still concerned with my safety
• No, the brake issue is as bad as before
• No, brake issue is worse than before
• I had no brake issue in the first place

Sorry, :focus:

 

I'm with the poster that said they would leave their recall open. There is nothing wrong with my car. The VSC engages the way it should and the brakes work, all acceleration is totally intended!

 

I too is planning to leave recall open, my Prius worked the way it should be I even tried to break over pot holes and haven't noticed the brake doesn't work well to the 'pt' of being dangerous. Come to think of it doesn't all car brake less than normal over un-even surfaces let alone a pot hole?

 

For those of you leaving the recall open. I think you can't do service at Toyota.

There is a recall. It is allegedly safety related. Any dealer that let's a car out of it's service bay without a safety fix will have to answer to Toyota if Toyota gets sued. And if the same dealer lets the car out 3 times without the fix, it will look really bad.

 

Yep.

 

Having had a G2 2005 Prius and now the G3 2010, I agree with this. My wife has experienced the G2 "issue" and wasn't concerned about it at all. I have felt both. I can live with either but am having the recall done Saturday. I'll attempt to reproduce the one incident I had with our 2010 over the dual pot holes (Bob Wilson has this documented) and see if I perceive any difference. My "feeling" is that this is the regenerative braking phenomenon coupled with ABS engaging. When my Acura MDX engages the anti-lock brakes, there is a stuttering when the brakes stop and the distance may be longer; my Ford Thunderbird ABS acts very much the same. I'm not sure the Prius ABS do a perceptable "stuttering" when they engage. I'm not really concerned at this point.