LA TImes covers fuel tank bladder issue

I've never owned a car with a longer cruising range than a Prius. I don't see the problem.
Try touring on a motorbike with a tank capacity of 200km then the Prius feels like a long range cruiser and a half! I can drive Adelaide to Melbourne and part way back on a tank, where is the issue? That's over 800km or over 8 hours driving at highway speeds. I admit I have no bladder but the best I ever got in the past was about 650km which isn't much more than 400 miles.

It is a testament to how good this car is that people complain about such non issues.

 

I am not aware of an NCF page that talks about traction control changes. Although some posters (i.e., Jay) have commented about these changes, this does not appear to be documented.

 

I don't think the lack of range is as big of an issue as the other problems associated with the bladder (although being able to use only 8-9 gals out an 11.9 gal advertised tank is lame).

The bigger issue in my mind are the folks who constantly have trouble fueling the car and the erratic fuel gauge. Although I never had much of a problem with pumps in this area many people have a devil of a time getting the G2 to accept fuel and to get the tank full. This was a problem since the G2 debuted in 2004. That, and the inconsistent, non-linear gas gauge have probably accounted for more threads on PC that any other single issue.

All these issues should go away with the 2010 and I'm sure the owners of the G3 won't miss the problems the bladder caused.

I applaud the original article. Although the Prius is a great car, it is not perfect and getting this information out isn't a bad thing. As far as the dead horse argument, sure we all know about it but remember this forum is a small sampling of current or potential Prius owners who may find this information helpful.

 

It seems to me that the erratic gauge is the problem, not the bladders fault.

We have an 07 and I pump on slow and one click past the auto cut off. The thing is the bars system in not real accurate anyway. For use 3 bars left is normally about 7 gallons. That is where we try to fill up, like to be safe.

 

The fuel gauge is accurate on cars without the bladder system. I fill up with two bars remaining and my last four fill-ups were:

35.31 litres
34.54 litres
34.00 litres
34.82 litres

Most ever was 36.64 litres (early in owning the car, so I may have spilled some) and least ever, excepting times where I deliberately filled up early to avoid an expected price rise, or with limited fuelling opportunities (motorway driving), was 32.90 litres. I know where the cheap, good-quality fuel is, so normally refuel at the same station.

The bladder is only installed on North American cars, to meet CARB states' AT-PZEV requirement. California mandates a certain proportion of a manufacturer's output must be zero-emissions at the tailpipe, and some must be partial zero-emissions (PZEV). PZEV is the same as SULEV toxic emissions levels (Federal Tier 2 Bin 3), with the addition of zero evaporative emissions.

The 2010 car will have a different method of achieving AT-PZEV. The bladder is no more.

 

You have no bladder so why are you even commenting? It's a non-issue because you don't have to deal with it. There are many things that are non-issues to me for the same reason, but I don't see the need to tell folks that do have problems that it's all in their heads.

My Accord had similar cruising range, but without the uncertainty and variability. My 240 had greater cruising range without the uncertainty and variability.

Uh, no, it is not. It is a testament to it being a problem for some that it is complained about.

 

The gauge makes the problem worse because you have no indication if the gauge is reading correctly on the bottom of the tank until a pip is lost. With a normal gauge one could see the gauge was still responding, but in the Prius we go blind at about 12% (blinking pip trigger point according to Evan in a recent post, 20% was one pip IIRC.) Since the next "indication" is running out of gas, this pretty much forces a considerable sacrifice in average cruising range all else being equal. Then there is the major shrinkage issue in cold weather, stiffness of the bladder, and venting issues that can be seemingly random for some.

The bladder is at the heart of the fill variability as evidenced by about a 20-22% variation range in hand calculated mileage as compared to the MFD for individual tanks.

 

After about 8 months and 8800 miles, I'm finally able to get more than 7 gallons per fillup. My driving range has increased from about 310-320 miles at 2 pips to 350-370. I've only gotten to 400 miles on a tank once. I'm thinking about having the dealership recalibrate when I get the 10,000 mile service next month.

 

Don't worry about pat, just take what he says with a grain of salt.

 

Well that worked.
I'm not saying it's in your head, I'm saying there is so much right with this car that a minor irritation is blown out of proportion.
What is you minimum reliable range on a tank then Shawn? 600km (400 miles)? The best I managed from my Camry was 400 miles. That's why I say it's a non issue.

I travelled 316km in my RAV4 with a trailer on over the weekend, used 3/4 of a tank. Cruising range in that condition on a full tank, about 400km. How does the Prius with a bladder compare?

Here is the problem, what other 4 cylinder family car will allow you to clock 500 miles on a single tank? is it common for a car to have a 500 mile range in the USA?

I looked up a Ford and Chev touring type cars, they are both 6 cylinders. I picked names I knew of and didn't cherry pick.
Chev Impala at best does 495 from a full tank to drained provided you match EPA, have the smallest engine and don't drive at all in urban environments.
Ford Taurus comes to the party, under the same conditions as above you can get 560 miles from a full 20 gallon tank.

OK those cars exist that will do 500 miles or more on a tank under the right conditions. But at double the fuel cost. They aren't the norm I don't think, but they are out there.

Oh I think I can comment even though I don't have a fuel bladder, this would be a sad world if you couldn't make comment about a problem if it wasn't your problem. If my comments get your back up then so be it.

 

What, making people think you are being a jerk about this?

You are writing about things you haven't even experienced because you don't have the equipment, and are claiming that it is not a problem. Gee, that makes about as much sense as claiming winter mileage loss is not a problem when living in a climate without a real winter.

Apparently it is because you don't like to use much of the fuel tank according to your previous posts. That's the difference between choice and equipment specifications. It's not the car that is reducing your range, it's you, the driver.

It's a bit presumptuous of you to tell others that not getting anywhere close to the stated fuel capacity or range (based on fuel capacity and EPA mileage) is not a concern.

And my Accord did 500 miles at times. 400 would be low for the highway, 450+ was common. City driving is different...and that is where the Prius shines with respect to range. The bladder robs the Prius of its legs on trips though and of course increased the number of fills even in city driving.

No, the problem is that people can read tanks specs and mileage and estimate a range for most vehicles. That sadly is not really the case with the bladder equipped Prius. Instead, we effectively lose a few gallons of stated capacity. Hence, people come here and post about the issue. They also post about the wild swings in fill volumes and calculated mileage.

So we are in the ironic position of having a car that gets terrific gas mileage and should go up to 500 miles on a full tank, but instead typically comes up 100 miles short of that...and even 200 miles short of that if one follows the conservative advice given by those seemingly terrified of running out of gas like yourself. Why? Because of the bladder.

For my vehicles I expect a working range of about 450 miles for the highway--and yes, I've hit 500 in them at times. In the 300's I'm not a happy camper. There are already enough extra stops with kids between stations...who needs the car forcing another early pit when everything else is running smoothly?

Apparently, my 4dr automatic Accord EX w/ 17 gallon tank and 30 mpg EPA highway rating wasn't "the norm" although it was on of the best selling vehicles at the time (might have been #1 when fleet sales were excluded IIRC.) Seemed pretty normal to me and it wasn't uncommon for us to get 30+ mpg on trips. Typically filled the tank at ~15 gallons, with 16+ gallon fills at times. Can't find my primary logbook at the moment (only a secondary late in its life after performance mods...and it was still doing 30 mpg and taking up to 16.5 gal/fill) but I had a 500 mile trip that I did periodically on a single fill. So far, from the flashing pip, my Prius has not exceeded 450 miles even when I got over 50 mpg for the tank. When I was filling at 2 pips I've had ranges as short as 304 and 309 miles and I've had 350 miles from the flashing pip before.

Sticking to what you actually know would be a smarter move. Trying to say that other folks are unreasonable when you don't even have to contend with the device in question is awfully pompous of you. It assumes that everyone else's needs and expectations are just like yours. I don't care if you like short range. That's your choice so I really don't care and consider a "live and let live" thing. If you want to fill more often, I've got no problem with that. (Some others might though, as it does increase hydrocarbon emissions since you don't have the bladder, and there is also a finite amount of gas lost from the nozzle surface every time.)

It's not a problem for you as you don't have the bladder and aren't interested in using the full range of any vehicle anyway.

 

It would be nice not to have the bladder in the gas tank so I'm glad it is a thing of the past. However it hasn't been a big deal after 35K miles.

My experience is better mileage on the highway than off. Around town we have to work to get 48mpg but there are lots of gas stations. It's typical for us to fill at 2 bars and put 7-9 gallons in the tank. On the highway we are more likely to get 50-52mpg without working at it and will easily get 400+ miles per tank. Trips to visit my grand children 500 miles away require filling twice over the 1,000 mile round trip. I have to stop to use the restroom more often than fill the car.

 

I'm new to the forum but not to the Prius. The gas tank issue might be beaten to death for the rest of you, but like I said, I'm new.

The bladder was never an issue with our 2001, but its been more than a year since the 2007 would take more than 8 gallons, no matter how long the low fuel light has been blinking or what is the temperature of the weather.

It's interesting to learn that the 2010 models dropped the bladder system, but my experience causes me to wonder whether the bladder system needed to be thrown out entirely.

I've never run out of gas over the disappearance of perhaps 25% of the tank capacity, and barring the apocalypse, it is a time management issue more than anything else.

So, thanks for helping me put this into perspective and giving me a place to share my experience and express my thoughts on the subject.

 

I have a 2010 model- bought in Dec '09. When the light came on, I drove 15 more miles and got to a gas station, filled it up to full and only put in 9.5 gallons- Wth? Do I have a bladder or what? Does 11.9 not mean 11.9? I'm concerned about not knowing how much gas I have left. 1 more problem- after I fill up to full and the bars are at full even though I've driven 120 miles, again Wth?

 

Is this an isolated incident or have you had the same experience multiple times with different pumps? Some pumps tend to be more sensitive than others with regards to clicking off when a tank is supposedly full.

Are you saying that you fill up the tank then drive 120 miles and the gas gauge is still showing full and this is a problem? It is very common to not have the gauge move until 100-150 miles have been driven. This is especially true if you are getting 55+mpg.

 

Hi everyone. I bought my 2008 Prius right before Christmas and waited to start driving Christmas week.
It was at half a tank of gas when I drove it for the week so I couldn't really gauge mileage usage, but my tank filled up 7.753gallons. So I remember my friend telling me a way to use the gas pedal but I was clueless.
A week after fill up I am noticing the bars are going away faster. I LOOKED AND LOOKED for the right way to get mileage. Learned coasting, and I for the first time is keeping the speed limit. So at 121 8 I filled up 2 588 gallons. So now I came across this subject 2 days ago. I know this thread started in 2008., but I have some things I'm baffled. People mention about getting 420 miles and it being the normal.
I have changed routes in driving to and from work. I accelerate I coast frequently
So thus past week my bars were going down after 40 miles. 115 miles I'm quarter away from half a tank. That means If I get gas Thurs I'm defeating my purpose of hitting the gas station as less then possible. I need to know my gas mileage is at 161 at half a tank. I'm only going to he getting 3/4ths more. I plan on a eVent 30 miles or so away. I'm going to fill up before my trip. I need to know what the local driving

 

420 miles is not normal. it's not even average. try holding the pump handle at 90 degrees or upside down. try different pumps/gas stations, pump as slowly as possible.

 

Thanks I usually let the gas go automatically. I filled up at 160 miles 2.56 gallons of gas. The gauge didn't show the last bar filled. On way to Hollywood 9 miles second bar is gone. Yesterday may be 61 miles my gauge is at a bar from half a tank. I was going to fill up again but decided what that would be my 4th time this month. So hey what about stop signs. Do I glide to a stop sign and put in brakes at 7miles an hour. I'm like driving 23miles or should I say I accelerate 35 miles and it gets down to 23 to fast. So I'm pumping acceleration