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Updated: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Danny, Feb 4, 2010.

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  1. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    Nothing official out of Toyota yet except for a very minimal statement, but the Nikkei news service in Japan is reporting that Toyota will recall 270,000 3rd generation Prius hybrids that have been sold since the May launch of the 2010 model. As we've reported a couple of times on PriusChat, Toyota performed a software update to the Prius brake computer system and it has been in effect for Prius models rolling off the line since January. But Prius hybrids sold between May and December do not have the updated brake ECU software, yet. This recall is to update the rest of the 3rd generation 2010 Priuses with the new software. This type of software update is usually handled via a SSC, or Special Service Campaign, but given all of the attention that Toyota has been receiving from the NHTSA it's not entirely surprising that this issue has been pushed to the top of the pile so fast. Details coming. #Update#
    Updated Statement From Toyota Regarding Prius Brake Issue TORRANCE, Calif., February 4, 2010 – Toyota is aware that NHTSA has opened a Preliminary Evaluation centered on owner complaints of a braking issue with the 2010 model year Prius. Toyota will cooperate fully with NHTSA’s investigation. Some customers have complained of inconsistent brake feel during slow and steady application of brakes on rough or slick road surfaces when the anti-lock brake system (ABS) is activated in an effort to maintain tire traction. The system, in normal operation, engages and disengages rapidly (many times per second) as the control system senses and reacts to tire slippage. A running production change was introduced last month, improving the ABS system’s response time, as well as the system’s overall sensitivity to tire slippage. This preliminary evaluation addresses owner complaints specific to the 2010 Prius. This condition is not related to either the floor mat entrapment recall or the sticky pedal recall currently in action. Toyota will continue to evaluate the condition as it relates to owner complaints and will keep NHTSA informed of its progress.​
    #5:30pm Update# Still no official word from the NHTSA or Toyota about an impending recall. With the amount of grandstanding the NHTSA has done lately, I'd be surprised if they are not the first ones to announce it. Right now the only source saying there is a recall is the Nikkei out of Japan. #7:00pm Update# An anonymous source within Toyota has told PriusChat that "A fix for the 2010 Prius brake issue is on the way." It is unknown if the fix will be in the form of a full-fledged recall or a SSC. It sounds like this issue will be cleared up pretty quickly.
     
    #1 Danny, Feb 4, 2010
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  2. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    This is good. Continual improvement. The fix came as fast as the acknowledgement of the issue.
     
    #2 usbseawolf2000, Feb 4, 2010
  3. Eoin

    Eoin Active Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    And where is the recall for gen II Priuses which have exactly the same problem?
     
    #3 Eoin, Feb 4, 2010
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  4. tom1l21

    tom1l21 Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue


    I have noticed this in the past too. There hasn't been the right circumstances for it to be a huge issue such as a pot hole right before a crosswalk, but I don't want to wait around for that to happen. I hope it gets fixed for everyone.
     
    #4 tom1l21, Feb 4, 2010
  5. Lithium

    Lithium HyMotioned Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    What about owners of the Gen 2 Prius that have experienced the same brake problem? I predict the brake recall will be expanded to the Gen 2 and then behind that will be another investigation and recall for the Gen 2 traction control cutting power completely when a tire slips. I'm holding out hope that Toyota gets their act together but I sure wish they would come clean all at once with known issues. It's appears their immediate focus is on fixing the newest models first so they can lift the sales ban and directly help their revenue stream. In other words, doing recall or warranty work on older models only hurts their bottom line in the near term.

    I'm starting to lose faith in them but honestly don't know if any of the other car manufacturers are any better.
     
    #5 Lithium, Feb 4, 2010
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  6. bestmapman

    bestmapman 04, 07 ,08, 09, 10, 16, 21 Prime

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    OK if they want to fix it then lets do it.
     
    #6 bestmapman, Feb 4, 2010
  7. bighouse

    bighouse Active Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    Wow bestmapman, you sure changed your tune- what happened to "Here we go again, a low post count person with outlandish claims. I am one of those who can't seem to get it to do it. This poster obviously has an agenda." ???
     
    #7 bighouse, Feb 4, 2010
  8. Eoin

    Eoin Active Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    First it was floormats. Then it was accelerator pedals. Then is was a chance of electronic interference. Today it is a recall of 2010 Priuses for brakes. Tomorrow it will be a recall of all gen II Priuses because of brakes. Toyota could not be handling this any worse.
     
    #8 Eoin, Feb 4, 2010
  9. Wooski

    Wooski New Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    What about UK cars?
     
    #9 Wooski, Feb 4, 2010
  10. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    No word out of the UK yet. As soon as their PR guys update me, I'll update you.

    I would guess that Gen 2 Prius will get the software update later. They already have the fix for the 2010 since it has already been put in place in the factory.

    Hopefully we'll have more to share soon.
     
    #10 Danny, Feb 4, 2010
  11. digitalsingularity

    digitalsingularity New Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    Sweet, now I get to experience the recall nightmare. I assume my dealership is already crazy busy because of the other recalled vehicles. I'm glad they fixed the problem, but sheesh, I'd imagine it's going to be quite the experience getting in the queue for the fix.
     
    #11 digitalsingularity, Feb 4, 2010
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    We should not assume that G2 will get a firmware update just because the 2010 model will. According to NY Times, Toyota thinks G3 has a different brake design.

    Answers to Questions About Prius and the Toyota Recalls - Question - NYTimes.com
    "The problem does not appear to affect earlier versions of the Prius because the brakes were redesigned for the 2010 model."

    U.S. Starts Inquiry Into Brake Problems on Prius - NYTimes.com
    "The company said the 2010 Prius has a new type of regenerative brake system different from the ones used in previous generations."
     
    #12 Patrick Wong, Feb 4, 2010
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    This is a good thing. There were probably many more injury accidents than the 3 so far directly reported. I'm sure it took toyota sometime to test their fix.


    whaaaa?     Danny as the moderator have you considered that that the Gen 2 people saying the problem was not a safety issue were right about that, and those same people saying it was the same problem were wrong about that. There are mountains of evidence that the gen 2 has different hardware and software. If the gen 2 has the same problem, and I've seen no reliable evidence of this, the fix would likely be different.

    please deal in facts, and don't act as an echo chamber for misinformation.
     
    #13 austingreen, Feb 4, 2010
  14. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    That's why I said "I would guess". Perhaps I should amend it to say "If Toyota wants to shut up everyone, they will have an update for the 2nd gen".
     
    #14 Danny, Feb 4, 2010
  15. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    That's exactly why I would say "I would guess" that the 2nd gen would get it later.

    In my opinion as a user of both generations of Prius, the "issue" is the same and is a result of the regen braking. I'm fully aware of the difference between the hardware and software between the generations.
     
    #15 Danny, Feb 4, 2010
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  16. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    Well, Toyota would also have to provide free HID bulb replacements for life, a new fuel tank w/o bladder, and new floor mats. Those four items should take care of 90% of the complaints... :cool:
     
    #16 Patrick Wong, Feb 4, 2010
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  17. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    I agree completely with this statement. The hardware and software have been changed, but the root cause is the same. This is because both systems take the same approach to blending regenerative braking and friction braking.

    The changes for the Gen III probably account for why the braking problem is more pronounced in the Gen III.

    Tom
     
    #17 qbee42, Feb 4, 2010
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  18. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    And I want the real "Jill" to sit next to me and navigate.

    Tom
     
    #18 qbee42, Feb 4, 2010
  19. Tom183

    Tom183 New Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    Comments that make sense:
    The 2010 is being recalled because there is a fix already implemented in production since the end of January. (Gen II's aren't being produced anymore, so any fix is probably still "in the works" somewhere - any recall won't happen until they have a fix.)

    The Gen III has a different braking system (fundamentally the same, but the software and hardware are both different from Gen II - the major difference being more regen at lower braking speeds. So the fix for the Gen II will likewise be different.)

    Last but not least, the Gen II has been around for 5 years and the problem hasn't been considered significant enough for a recall - although in light of recent events and Toyota's need to rebuild customer sentiment, a Gen II recall may be right around the corner. So Gen II owners, if you've waited this long, just sit tight a little longer - I wouldn't be surprised to see a Gen II recall within the next few months, although it may be characterized as a "just in case, to reassure our customers" fix rather than a safety issue.
     
    #19 Tom183, Feb 4, 2010
  20. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Re: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

    From toyota in todays NYT. Toyota has consistenly said the braking system is different. The NHTSA has consistently said the reports were on the 2010 model.

    As a driver I am much more consered that toyota fixes there unsafe cars. I don't really care if people talk about it. Taking safety issues seriously is important for all automakers. In this case I think Toyota acted well. In the unintended accelleration, I think they acted without any honor. As a moderator I would think you should read some of the information coming out from the NHTSA and make educated guess. I take posts by you with high credibility, and ignore most of those by the whiners and fan boys.

    Both Toyota and the NHTSA want you to report problems to the NHTSA if there is a safety issue. For those readers that think there is an issue with their Gen 2 brakes please report it, so those at toyota can evaluate it.
     
    #20 austingreen, Feb 4, 2010
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