Toyota Acknowledges Design Problems In 2010 Prius Brakes, Modified Models Built After January

Re: The Woz Knows What He's Talking About- Toyota Admits Software To Blame For Prius Problems

Wow, I guess I have owned some odd ball cars because in several cars I have owned if you hold the right button down (sometimes set, sometimes accell), the car will keep going up after you let it go. Not all of them, but more than one or two. I never thought this was a problem. I learned not to do that, but I guess that is too much to ask of modern day drivers.

 

Conspiracy theories aside, I have experienced this at least 10 times on rough surfaces in both dry and slippery conditions. I have reported it to the NHTSA, and when I called up my dealer today, they said there is nothing wrong, it's all the media's fault, and I don't know how to use ABS brakes. They said they would look at the car anyway, but they already know nothing is wrong, since Toyota says there isn't.
Talk of a PR nightmare!
Also, when I tried to call the Toyota Customer "Satisfaction" Center, the recording said that because of the increased call volume, they could not accept any more incoming calls.
What are they thinking?

 

Exactly.
What happens is you stop decelerating which gives you a feeling of acceleration. You aren't actually accelerating because your speed isn't increasing. However, people feel they are accelerating, so that is what they report.

 

I bought mine in December. Called the dealer here in Asheville, NC, who said he had no relevant information. If my particular Prius is a problem, I would "likely" get a recall letter. I guess the only short term solution is to drive very very cautiously.

 

A change in acceleration (or deceleration) is defined as jerk (or jolt).
Jerk (physics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Acceleration is defined as the change in velocity.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration"]Acceleration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


When you stop decelerating, your speed stays the same (you are coasting) so there is no acceleration.

 

For those of you who call your dealer to see if there is a fix for the situation, I think you're premature. I'm a new Toyota owner, having had my car since September. I've noticed in my short time of ownership that the dealers usually suffer from some weird lag in information. Seems the good folks here at Priuschat are more aware of Toyota Service Bulletins that the dealerships themselves are...So, I'd wait a few weeks/months for the service bulletins to trickle down to the local dealerships.

 

i have used the speed adjust on CC a lot. as i mentioned above, when on the freeway, i am in CC 90+% of the time.

it takes a bit of practice, but i can adjust my set speed to within 1-2 mph of the target speed by how long i hold the stalk down. it took 5 minutes of practice on each of the 3 Pri's i have owned.

now, granted, i usually do the bump which increases or decreases it at 1 mph, but have had traffic slowdown situations where i wanted to get up to 10-15 mph faster than i was going and i can come pretty close to that. but it does take holding the stalk a few seconds instead of the bump.

i still dont consider that a flaw especially when tapping the brakes or the kickout immediately stops all acceleration. the system does exactly as it was designed to do.

ever set a timer on a microwave? either tap the button for small changes or hold the button for faster changes? not much difference here that i can see. i guess, if we needed an adjustment, a display as to the target speed would be nice so you would know if you were overshooting your target

 

Having had my Prius since November and experienced the problem I can say that it could result in serious injury or death. For those of you in the SF Bay Area a primary example of this is the pothole immediately across from the archery range on Kings Mountain Road in Woodside, slightly less than one mile from Skyline Blvd (Hwy 35). The pothole is at the apex of a bend in the road and on a steep section. If one wasn't' careful, the loss of braking, brief as it is, could send one into the opposing lane due to the steepness of the grade. This road is very popular with bicyclists.
I'd also like to take exception to the "just step harder on the brake" solution. There's still a delay and if you are going downhill while turning this could result in momentary loss of control of the vehicle. In other instance it could cause a rear end collision if anything greater than the exact right amount of force is used. I've experienced worse bug-a-boos in cars but Toyota should never have allowed this problem to go on as long as it has.

 

Can you provide a Google Map, Google Street View or photos of these locations?

I'm collecting these locations to see what sort of pattern emerges. So far, I can't recreate any problem beyond what happens in two of a dozen potholes and ONLY within the boundary of these two potholes.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

I assume This Is Just on The 2010? It doesn't apply to our 2007 model??

I assume we will get something from Toyota for a fix on this, for our 2010?

 

This is inaccurate. Some cars are reported to 'accelerate' but we have no engineering data showing this to be the case. We do know if a wheel is airborne, braking force is lost while the wheel(s) are airborne. However, some of notice that as soon as the wheels are in contact with the road, braking force returns.

This is an extreme version of airborne tires:


There are reports that Toyota has found a fix but so far, no technical data. If you have some, please share it such as locations of where you have experience it.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

Ilokjiuhiu

 

John Stewarts Take (funny, but not for the thin skinned):

Video: Toyotathon of Death | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

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I think some of this must be the blending of threads? But I'm suprised at the reaction by a lot of people. imo...

Toyota updating software to address a braking issue in the 2010 Prius has absolutely nothing to do with Steve Wozniaks cruise control issues...it doesn't prove him right, wrong or indifferent. It simply has nothing to do with it. I don't get the ressurection of discussion and debate about it in regards to this ECU update, which evidently has nothing to do with cruise control and how it reacts at high speeds which was Wozniaks contention and isssue.

Secondly what suprises me is a lot of peoples passiveness in regards to how Toyota has handled this entire "update". I'm extremely disappointed and upset at the timeline. IMO, you do not quietly make an update to the software, thus recognizing a problem with the braking system in an effort to fix it, THEN only when the mainstream media picks it up, tell everyone...and offer no fix as of yet for owners that purchased Pre-January. That's a lot of customers, and owners.

The truth is I can understand Toyota probably wanting to avoid another headline. Plus probably wanting to avoid headlines that connected Brake Problem and Prius, which has been selling very well and as of yet was untouched by Toyotas recent problems. BUT their decision to quietly update outgoing produced 2010's and not say anything about it to everyone that has already purchased a 2010 is very, very, troubling.

I can forgive problems. While automobile manufacturing must strive to reach very high standards due to the nature of the product being produced, I understand that manufacturing isn't always "perfect". You have and discover defects. So massive gas pedal recall? Unfortunate, and costly to Toyota, but as a consumer, I can understand and even give Toyota kudos for handling it, stopping production and sacrificing by launching a high profile recall.

What I feel disturbed about is the lack of transparency inwhich Toyota dealt with this brake issue. To me the formula is simple. If you make a change to outgoing models then you have recognized a problem. If you have recognized a problem and even implemented a fix, then you MUST simultaneously communicate that to your customers and owners of the vehicle. This should of been knowledge that was released before the first re-programmed, updated 2010 Prius rolled off the assembly line.

Toyota says Prius produced in January have the update. So how many weeks have they been doing this? Furthermore, even if implemented in January, you know development didn't happen overnight, so where is the transparency and communication?

I think to avoid another negative headline Toyota tried to slip this "update" in, in a sneaky, quiet way. I also think recognizing a problem and fixing it with current production should be simultaneous with communication with current owners. Even if Toyota was logistically unsure how they would handle the update for current owners at this point...informing them that a change was going to be coming, was implemented in new models rolling off the assembly line and would be made available to them was the right thing to do...and Toyota did not do it.

I admit I missed the part in Dannys post yesterday about the ECU software update. I didn't "hear" about it until it got picked up by mainstream media. But my reaction when I heard about it was not good.

I slept on it. I've given it some distance and thought. But it still bothers me the apparent lack of transparency and communication that Toyota demonstrated in handling this situation.

I'm a little suprised that more 2010 owners in this forum aren't upset. You now own an automobile that is functionally different then the same model rolling off the assembly line today....and as of yet, Toyota hasn't contacted you or offered you any way of making yours like the new ones. That IMO is unacceptable and poor behavior from an Auto Manufacturer.

I'm going to give it more time. See what Toyota's official response will be. See if they can explain why they decided to handle the software update the way they did decide to handle it...which imo was poorly.

But to me the handling of the update is a bigger story, and bigger issue for Toyota than the reality of the update itself.

 

in this extreme version, when you become airborne, the sensation of flying (or not having road contact) will make it seem like you are traveling faster but in reality, as soon as the tires leave the ground (or lose traction) the motive force supplying the acceleration is removed causing IMMEDIATE loss of horizontal velocity.

once again, we are being fooled by our perception of the situation and the feeling we get from loss of control. this raises our anxiety level only...not our vehicle's speed.

 

Can you provide a Google Map, Google Street View, or photo of the pothole?

The reason I ask is this pothole:

It is ~5 ft. (1.5 m) long and 3-4 inches deep (7.5 - 10 cm) deep. It actually extends to the lower pavement layer, the street had been repaved. While the wheel is airborne or traveling through the pothole, braking is reduced. As soon as I clear the pothole, normal braking returns. This is one of two potholes out of dozens that have given any indication of a reduced braking effect that is as brief as it takes to pass over the pothole.

I would like to know more about your pothole. Also, what was the air temperature at the time?

Bob Wilson

 

i just had this happen today and to me it was no big deal.while making a slow right turn with my foot on the brake peddle i hit a chuck hole.the car did a little surge and i was expecting slowing action because my foot was on the brake.it happened in less than a blink of an eye and the surge was ever so slight but still noticeable.Had there been a car 3 ft in front of me i would not have hit it.I have had it since oct.and may have had it happen before but today i had it more on my mind and noticed it.
My worries are gone and will wait for a software fix.

 

While I think alot of Toyota's problems have been way overblown, I do think The Electric Me has made alot of valid points. I hoping it's that upermanagment has been overwhelmed with problems but they should address alot of the points The Electric Me has made very soon.

 

If Toyota has a fix, they had better do a recall. Just from a liability standpoint, they are setting themselves up for a class-action lawsuit if they don't.