Braking problem

I cannot agree with you more. I did not say Toyota made those statements.

Prius Chat is a public site.

What I mean to say is that instead of being reassured by Toyota, some people are getting worked up by other posters (which is not Toyota). I am also saying that by defending Toyota too hard, some posters (not Toyota) inadvertently produce an opposite effect.

 

Correct. PriusChat is a privately owned public forum. Toyota has no official stake in PriusChat. However, Toyota staffers often refer to PriusChat to get a feel for what owners are saying. In some cases we have direct contact with members of the Toyota marketing team.

Some of the long time members, myself included, will forward information to Toyota and say something like "Hey, you should read this. A lot of people are getting really upset over this issue." It's in our best interest to make sure Toyota stays informed.

Tom

 

I know you didn't say that Rhino and I apologize for not clarifying MY post.
In a thread this long, often people skim the posts and the way yours started out talking about Toyota but ended up talking about other posters might have been misleading for some. I know I initially skimmed it and got that impression.

I think you and I are in agreement on many of the points.

 

I think your pretty much right on Octavia. :rockon:

I complained about the braking issue fairly early on and had some lively discussions with some of the more loyal Toyota owners. But at no time did I ever see any evidence that any of them were employed or funded by Toyota. A few posters are employed by Toyota but they have always made that clear. There are a lot of good people on this site who love their Prius and have a lot of pride of ownership, which I can agree with. But I do think they go a bit overboard when it comes to brand name loyalty.

I don't consider this braking issue a safety issue, but it is annoying and needs to be fixed. It is not something I would sell my new Prius over. If a tree fell on the car today and totaled it I would probably go down and order another one just like it. Well maybe BP instead of silver this time, just to be different.

 

We got our IV Prius in July, and complained about the brakes to the dealer a week later. The dealer did nothing, saying they were fine. Toyota knew about the problem, denied it, and fixed it on the manufacturing line.

We actually went to drop of our Prius last night for oil service at another dealer, complained about the brakes again, and the guy spouted the same BS line.

Bottom line, the Prius brakes are extremely flawed, and very dangerous. Toyota knew about, and denied it.

 

comment deleted

 

Extremely flawed? Very dangerous? Give me a break.

I can make the flaw happen at will at a spot on my daily commute to work. It's a quirky little anomaly and I have no doubt it will be addressed by Toyota in the cars that were sold prior to the manufacturing change. But let's not blow it out of proportion.

 

I too like to have model bugs worked out first before buying. But it seems Toyota was content not to offer disclosure of the Prius problem until finally found out. So even buying a used GenII wouldn't have worked.

 

Toyota has to do something about the implausible denial of its service 'tards. Same issue here.

Okay, Toyota apologists (aka funatics, Jihadists, extremists, zealots, lunatics ...), what do you say now after your empty denials materialize?

It's disgusting that Toyota covered up a life-and-death issue for even a day, and had the enterprising reports of the L.A. Times not come to light this information would still be unknown.

On the other hand, let's assume Toyota is now doing THE RIGHT THING and coming clean (at least on the slow speed 'acceleration' issue -- aka braking dropout issue). Can we FULLY trust them again?

There will be a recall and the drive-time computer will be reprogrammed to replace faulty code. Check off major bug number one.

Now, if the stuffed shirts would just admit the high-speed unintended acceleration issue, we would be in a good place. We'd be in an even better place if they could fix it ...

 

Have you reported it to the dealer, the relevant government bodies? Have they denied that there is a problem?

 

Your anecdotal evidence mean nothing. I've had zero incidents with my Prius either after 10,000 miles, that doesn't mean its not an issue. Just, like there are plenty of explorer owners who managed not to [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_and_Ford_tire_controversy"]roll their car. [/ame]

 

I hate to be a conspiracy theorist BUT with all the problems Detroit is having, the powers that be, will do anything they can including blowing things way out of proportion to scare people back into buying mediocre American automobiles.

Today GMAC anounced it lost FIVE BILLION in the Fourth quarter. Is that enough of a reason for the U.S. Government to bash it's biggest competitor.

Remember the U.S. Government is a major stock holder in GM and Chrysler.



I posted this on another site yesterday.

I've had it happen a few times on bumpy roads. I saw no increase in engine speed at all. It feels like the regenerative braking is cutting out early before the pads are engaging the brake discs. This process normally occurs down in the 6-8 mph area where the change over between regenerative and manual engagement of brake pads against the discs is pretty much a smooth transition.

Once it did it around 15-17 mph and all the other times it did it between 10-13 mph.

When slowing down in the regenerative braking mode, I hit a bump, the car kicked out of regenerative braking and started free wheeling. A slight increase in pressure on the brake pedal engaged normal braking.

The first time or two it happens it does get your attention really quick. Now if and when it happens I shrug it off as another quirk in the car.

When your slowing down and your feeling negative G's and all of sudden the effect of the regenerative braking is gone. This force from braking pushing you forward also stops instantly. This is where people think the car is accelerating when it is not.

The seat is usually inclined back slightly and the seat bottom is sitting higher in the front than in the back. When the regenerative braking shuts off and the car has no negative force from braking, the person riding in the car goes instantly from a force pushing their body forward to a neutral force. Because of this seating position, this quick change in force which is neither pushing forward or backward is giving the driver the feeling that the car is accelerating. Normal gravity due to the "seat position" is pushing the driver or causing the body to fall back into the seat simulating the feeling that the car is accelerating. If the seat was like this "L" instead of this "\_" people wouldn't feel this so called acceleration effect of gravity so intensely.

 

Agreed, that is a consideration. However, the Chevy Cobalt is being investigated for steering cutout problems that have led to 11 accidents: Chevy Cobalt steering complaints spark U.S. investigation - Feb. 2, 2010 .

So, steering, acceleration or braking. Pick your poison. Personally, I prefer a car I can steer, so I will steer away from GM.

 

Re: Floating feeling when braking

Good conditions for a "brake loss situation" are given in Michigan, US 23 northbound, exit 80 (Torrey Road). At the intersection with Torrey Road the road is going downhill and is bumpy.

I experienced the brake loss feeling twice, and ever since I'm quite careful there now.

Regards, Georg

 

danforth & main toronto - Google Maps

Traveling East, turning South. There was a police car was waiting at the light, pointing north. The momentary loss happened mid-turn, when the Prius was pointing toward the police car. I may have gotten a bit closer than my planned trajectory, but that's pretty hard to confirm.

This was another one:
pharmacy & eglinton rd e toronto - Google Maps

Traveling northbound toward the intersection the pavement is pretty bumpy. The nice thing about this spot is that it's around the corner from the dealer we bought it at. We actually test drove over the same spot - but it didn't happen then. I plan to suggest to the dealer's service to try to duplicate the problem here -- but it's circumstantial due to speed, the light timing, etc.

I haven't taken it to the dealer for the problem mostly because of reading this thread. I rank this a definite problem for the car, that may someday lead to a fender-bender or at worst a pedestrian injury. However, the chance of these happening are pretty small. But I still think there is a chance, so Toyota should implement a fix if they have one. Other than that, as I've commented before, this is the most thrilling aspect of driving the Prius. I'm fine visiting the local amusement park to get a thrill on a roller-coaster instead.

Today, I documented the problem on Transport Canada's site, after reading a news story mentioning five complaints so far in Canada. I hadn't been aware that there was a spot to record this:

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/7/PCDB-BDPP/fc-cp.aspx?lang=eng

 

How pathetic! How does a) a 5 min 3-mile test drive, when you're more overwhelmed with the car controls and worried about avoid crashing it compares with b) 100 miles per day of driving where you have figured out how to drive the car and is now paying attention to things like comfort and practicality?

Men, get over it and focus on the main purpose of the thread. Just because I think the Prius is a crappy car, and it really is, to a point that it makes me miss my worst car ever, a dodge caravan, it does not mean it is a crappy car for everybody else, especially in a site for Prius fanatics!

Hello?!?

 

Re: Floating feeling when braking

I can see a ripple in the road if this is the right area:
8458 Torrey Road, Grand Blanc, MI - Google Maps

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

Here's my take on the current Prius brake issue. This is likely nothing more than an annoyance issue probably experienced in a small % of all Prii (possibly all hybrids) since day one. Most new models of cars will have issues which have been reported by ~100 owners out of a population of millions (<0.01%). However, it has been caught in a widely thrown "news" net because of the hysteria about the "uncommanded acceleration" issue (possibly a few thousand valid reports out of millions of vehicles + a good dose of Y2K/Terminator fear). Unfortunately, in this country, TV = reality for too many people. As a consequence, swarms of new Prius owners are searching the internet for validation of their mental anguish and have descended on one of the few valid sources of information on this problem, namely Priuschat. The more intelligent of these people will provide concise and accurate descriptions of their incidents or lurk until they learn enough from the experts to contribute to real discussion. The others...well, look around. If this problem was a real, widespread safety issue, the floodgates would have opened on this forum before the TV stories broke. Instead, this forum saw a trickle of reports for months before the reporters stepped in and a doubling of the posts within a couple of days of the issue hitting celebrity status. This kind of posting pattern happens in every internet forum when the subject matter is exposed to mass media in a negative way and is as predictable as day and night. My own experience suggests that unless this problem is fantastically worse in many cases than what happened to me once in 4000 miles, the people who would crash as a result are IMHO tailgating and/or speeding anyway, although good drivers may be initially startled. I agree that providing information about this brake transition earlier would have helped the more thoughtful, as knowing about this quirk from reading Priuschat caused me to be on the lookout for the effect. I may take the "fix" if it is offered, but only if it has been validated by thorough testing and is not a knee-jerk attempt to pacify the stampeding masses. It could turn a 0.01% effect into a 1% effect quite easily if rushed.

 

Bob, I didn't know you were still taking data until I saw the post a few up from this one. I had my first braking problem experiance a couple weeks ago in a parking lot. The pothole is about 4-6" deep and the location is on the N/W corner of 43rd Ave and Union Hills in Phoenix, AZ. The pictures are of the exit facing East towards 43rd Ave.
Hope they help.

 

Do you remember the temperatures at the last times?

The reason I ask is our Prius uses a MacPherson strut on the front and a separate, shock absorber on the rear. One of my earliest computer simulations (in the early 1960s) was on an analog computer replicating the damping of spring, shock absorber, and car mass over a bump. There is a type of control law problem involving harmonics ... I'll discuss in more detail in another thread. But I would like to understand the temperature.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson