Toyota Acknowledges Design Problems In 2010 Prius Brakes, Modified Models Built After January

It's a similar system, but obviously the actual algorithms will differ, since they were written by different programmers and engineers.

Tom

 

Re: The Woz Knows What He's Talking About- Toyota Admits Software To Blame For Prius Problems

Yeah, that's not good. Since you're not actually accelerating, you can't be sure what speed you're setting it to. I'd call that a bug. Again, both in the driver and the cruise control. You're essentially telling it you want to ram the guy in front of you.

 

Background: I on my my third Prius and am very familiar with the VSC traction sysetm. My first Prius was a 2005, then a 2007, and now a 2010 that I picked up last week.

We still had ice and snow here in Iowa at the time. The first night I had the car home, I drove down the driveway and went to slow down and stop at the intersection with the surface road. The car did its typical "sliding, but tryign to stop" traction control thing on the ice (which I have done many times, often just for fun) and it felt like I was drivnig a big heavy car as it slowly slid forward right to the edge of the road with cross traffic. At the moment, I actually thought "wow, this one doesn't stop was good as the other one." I was under the impression it was a bigger, heavier car due to the more sluggish driving in ECO mode. (Later I realized this was not the case. Normal and PWR mode act as zippy as my previous ones, if not more.)

So, I expect this change in braknig sensation that stood out to me may very well be what is being discussed here. Nothing major, but it would have been if I had slid another foot or too in to oncoming traffic and gotten hit ;-)

 

If that is the case then Toyota also have a killer VSC system waiting to be fixed.

 

Re: The Woz Knows What He's Talking About- Toyota Admits Software To Blame For Prius Problems

The display clearly indicates the target speed, so you really do know your setting. On the other hand, you can't guarantee that the driver will actually read the display.

Tom

 

The disturbing thing is that this braking issue has been discussed for years on Priuschat and Toyota did nothing. Then they quietly fixed the problem last month. Only now do they acknowledge that there is a problem. Their behavior leaves a lot to be desired. I think they should immediately notify owners of all affected Priuses (mine is 2005) and recall them for a software fix. Some compensation for the inconvenience and lack of transparency would be in order - if only a discount on the next Toyota.

 

Re: The Woz Knows What He's Talking About- Toyota Admits Software To Blame For Prius Problems

Really? I didn't hear anywhere in his 'I don't know ... I don't think is a big deal...' interview where he described exactly how he's able to distinguish whether his automotive issue is caused by hardware, software, or a good ol' fashion mechanical cause.

There are multiple issues, and I think you blended the 2 together. The gen III issue(s) that got fixed last month necessarily couldn't have been talked about for years since it's only been available for 5 months or so.


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It might have been that there was just less traction than previous times you did this. Let's not forget that ABS and VSC cannot overcome simple laws of physics.

 

Re: The Woz Knows What He's Talking About- Toyota Admits Software To Blame For Prius Problems

So, it tells you the cruise control set speed? I don't have that package, so I have neither the problem, nor the display of the CC set speed. Hence my confusion. Too much assumption, too few facts.

 

Re: The Woz Knows What He's Talking About- Toyota Admits Software To Blame For Prius Problems

That's my understanding. I believe the CC speed setting is displayed on the MID.

Tom

 

i just checked out Woz's statement about this "repeatable" issue. does anyone know what he is talking about and what process i can go thru to verify this?

he implies it only happens with CC...i use CC nearly all the time on the freeway.

***edit***

ok, sometimes i feel sooo clueless. so Woz does not know how to properly operate the speed control in CC mode... that is not a software issue, its operator error and he should know better since all of what he designed was slow to react and had queues to compensate.

on the braking transition from regen to friction; i cannot believe that is the issue everyone has been complaining about. all this time, i experimented with my car to reproduce all these issues thinking i would be enlightened to another characteristic of my cars only to find out the issue is something that i have known for years.

i am sorry, but rule #1 of braking, if you are not stopping, push harder. do we need to be told that??

 

Re: The Woz Knows What He's Talking About- Toyota Admits Software To Blame For Prius Problems

But this braking issue is not confined to the gen 3 Prius. I have it on my 2005 as well, and it has been known for years.

 

Slow down your car (under 25 mph) while approaching a stoplight. Drive over a pothole while doing this. Your brakes will stop working and your car will accelerate.

 

I am thrilled that the NHTSA has taken action on this issue, because this very dangerous problem has affected me in my 2010 Prius dozens and dozens of times.

Here's another link on CNN:

"Government investigating 2010 Toyota Prius brake problems, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says"

More bad news for Toyota: Feds probing Prius brakes - Feb. 4, 2010

And all of this came after ONLY 124 complaints to the NHTSA, one of which was my mine. And I'm sure that Steve Wozniak's complaints helped things move along quickly, too. ;-)

So it is VERY IMPORTANT that we make our voices heard, because it DOES makes a difference! It's not too late to still file your complaints about the braking system in your 2010 Toyota Prius here: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/Complaint.cfm

The more people's voices they hear, the better!

They will take your VIN number so they can contact you if any progress happens on the situation.

 

If it is a known software problem, does your ordinary local dealer have the ability to update your software? Is it a firmware or a software problem? I doubt if they would have to physically replace the chip but I have no idea if they can do that fix at the smaller dealers.

 

This is probably an excellent time to buy Toyota shares.

 

a reduction in the rate of deceleration is defined as "acceleration" but in no instance will your velocity be increased.

what you describe is not braking, its traction control. when the car senses slippage, it compensates by allowing the wheel to turn to maintain control.

this can be done by reducing braking force to prevent a possible skid. at high speeds, you will want this. at low speeds, it is highly unlikely to cause an accident.

i have experienced this a lot. we have a ton of roundabouts, all of which have manhole maintanence access covers, along with living in a somewhat rainy area. all of this allows the slippage you describe.

but i have actually driven thru this 5 times in a row to examine what my car was doing and one thing i realized. the "sliding out of control" feeling is very scary. especially when the first thing you do is jerk the wheel to compensate and the car does not respond. but in reality, i estimated i slid 3-4 feet. (i am in a single lane roundabout so there is very little room to maneuver)

an adjustment to the algorithm, if it will calm people down, sure do it. but i dont consider it more than a "suggested" modification

 

yes. if you had an 04-06, there was a software flash that had to be done and all dealerships with a shop was able to do it. its simply flash programming updates which nearly every cellphone will need at one time or another

 

Slow down your car (under 25 mph) while approaching a stoplight. Drive over a pothole while doing this. Your brakes will stop working and your car will accelerate.

If you do not have you foot on the gas, how does it accelerate

 

This situation appears to be politically motivated. While I'm sure there are some drivability issues with the Prius, I doubt that there is anything life-threatening.

Like it or not, the current administration's alliance with GM/Chrysler and the labor unions must be considered.