"To shed light on this debate, we took six of the hottest hybrids, including three SUVs, on test drives of more than 100 miles. Unlike most vehicle reviews, we didn't care about 0-to-60 times or engine size -- we wanted to see how significantly we could improve the gas mileage by cutting down on unnecessary acceleration and hard braking. We were also curious whether our average gas mileage would fall within the EPA range, which is listed on the vehicles' window stickers. In the test, we drove on the same roads that we normally use." Good, Fair review of hybrids.
nice article and one of the best ive seen for capturing the ambience of driving a Prius. however, i still cant see how they bombed so badly in the mileage. a key here is that the Ford got the best mileage of the SUVs and was the only one tested in july
Sent them the following response: Your story "Cranky Consumer: Testing fuel claims of hybrids" has some serious flaws regarding the Prius. It is not a car that is mainly driven by electrical motors with gas assist. The car has three modes: gas, electric, or both and the computer picks the mode based on the driving needs. Further, your test drivers must have no clue how to drive the car to get such poor gas mileage. I have a 2002 Prius and generally average about 52 miles to the gallon in mixed highway/city driving. I believe the EPA ratings on my car are 51 city and 45 highway -- so I typically beat the EPA ratings. The ratings on the newer Prius is even higher, and most good drivers do better than I do on the new ones. Shame on you for a really bad analysis of hybrids.
We became skilled at reaching the 45 mph speed limit on Woodward Avenue, Detroit's cruising street, and running only on the battery, giving us the maximum fuel economy (100 mpg, according to the fuel-economy screen in the Prius). Still, the Prius failed to reach the low-end of the EPA range Prius didn't fail, they did. Intentionally restricting the engine from starting up causes an efficiency loss. Had they just driven it normally, rather than trying squeeze out only electricity, they would have seen better MPG. So I guess they were right, consumers like me do get cranky. But that is because they are contributing to a misconception. The hybrid works just fine if they "just drive it" instead.
Personally I think it is a very fair review. In fact, their mileage is about 1-2 mpg better than what I have been managing over the last 8000 miles. My daily commute is approximately 8 miles long, contains about 15 stop lights, is somewhat hilly and contains a lot of stop and go with acceleration up to 45-55 mph between stop lights, and I have tried all driving methods described on this board to increase my mileage and just can't break 50 mpg under these conditions. However, my 47-49 mpg under those conditions are far better than what everybody else is getting under the same conditions, and I am still thrilled with my Prius.
ltu1542hvy: dont take this wrong, but i have to ask you... do you feel its necessary to accelerate up to the speed limit just to come to a full stop at the next light?
Absolutely not. However in rush-hour traffic I do find it necessary to accelerate to a speed that allows me to keep up with traffic, which often times unfortuantely either equals or slightly exceeds the speed limit. If there is nobody behind me I will sometimes drive below the speed limit, depending on the contour of the hill that I am currently on. (maybe 5 mph below speed limit on top of hill, letting gravity take me to maybe 5 or 10 above at the bottom of the hill), etc. I don't mind driving so slow as to get passed a lot on the 4 lane portion of my commute, but I don't want to drive so slow as to risk having people blow their horn at me or possibly rear-end me. Even in Durham/Chapel Hill, NC there are a lot of ignorant pick-up truck driving rednecks who interpret Doge's advertising claim of "take life by the horns" as it being fair game to intimidate or run off the road eco-car driving treehuggers and hippies, and I don't want to risk life or limb (or personal property) to eek every last possible mpg out of my gas.
Temperature affects my short commute a lot. 8 miles in 15-20 minutes depending on traffic, but some days I lose as much as a whole MPG doing it, while others I break even or gain a tenth of a MPG. Typically, when it's really hot (over 90), I lose MPGs no matter how many coasting tricks I try. On a moderate day (70-85), not much goes wrong. Maybe all reviews should be done in early May?...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ltu1542hvy\";p=\"106963)</div> I agreed, I think it was a generally good comparison. It wasnt' meant to be a technological review, but gave enough info to understand a little about the system. Let's face it, if hybrids are going to take out, they are going to have to bought by the non-intellectual minority. 50mpg is still good gas mileage compared to any other car out there (even an Echo) and I enjoyed how they talked about how much hard accelaration and stops impacted their mileage. I for one hope that people see more of these "realistic" number and realize that 50 mpg is 50 mpg. Then after they get the car, realize it has even more potential. I would agree that they didnt' drive the car in the best manner (as we know from many posts here about the futility of trying to maintain electric mode), but let's give credit where credit is do. A gentle correction about it being best to minimize battery use will get the point across to more than an angry response about their errors.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva\";p=\"107031)</div> G: That alone would make it worth having hybrid cars, never mind the fuel savings. J
What exactly do they think is the "debate" they're trying to shed light on? Whether or not hybrids are more fuel-efficient than ordinary cars? Duh.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Orsino\";p=\"107065)</div> That is exactly the debate. We who own and drive Prii all know that they are, and to us it is a "duh" question, however the "media" in general have done enough of a hatchet job against hybrids that there are still enough people out there who seriously believe that hybrids are no more efficient than the better, more efficient conventional cars and thus are not worth the extra cost (in terms of cost to manufacture and initial purchase price) and complexity. Unfortunately I have encountered dozens of these misinformed over the last several months and have set them straight, but there are still thousands of these misinformed still at large, and I welcome any article as the one that started this thread that give a reasonably fair and realistic description of the abilities of hybrid technology. Does anybody remember that hateful article that, if I remember correctly, appeared in the Detroit Free Press earlier this year that claimed that a Prius only achieved 22 mpg? Or I had another person about a month ago insist to my face with a raised voice that Consumer Reports said that a Prius only got 35 mpg and thus I was stupid to have bought one, and that her Diesel Jetta does so much better.
I agree with those who said the only real error in the article is saying it is essentially an electric car with gas backup. Missed the boat BIG TIME on that one. People will think they should be able to go most anywhere on electric only. I don't think that 50.9 for the distance they drove and the time they had with the car is all that bad. I've only managed to break the 50 MPG 'barrier' since the middle of May. Colder temps really do make a difference. I was in the high 30's and low 40s from mid Dec to around the end of March. I don't know how much 'break in' gain there is. I got the 5K oil change in Feb, getting the 10K tomorrow. About 1K per month. And I wouldn't go too hard on them for the comment about getting it up to 45 and holding it there on electric only unless I had more info. There is one stretch of road I drive twice a week that is 45 MPH, though there is a fair bit of traffic and reality is more like 40-42. I don't hold it in electric along that stretch, but the computer frequently will. Perhaps that is what they meant.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ltu1542hvy\";p=\"107073)</div> That is exactly the debate. We who own and drive Prii all know that they are, and to us it is a "duh" question, however the "media" in general have done enough of a hatchet job against hybrids that there are still enough people out there who seriously believe that hybrids are no more efficient than the better, more efficient conventional cars and thus are not worth the extra cost (in terms of cost to manufacture and initial purchase price) and complexity. Unfortunately I have encountered dozens of these misinformed over the last several months and have set them straight, but there are still thousands of these misinformed still at large, and I welcome any article as the one that started this thread that give a reasonably fair and realistic description of the abilities of hybrid technology. Does anybody remember that hateful article that, if I remember correctly, appeared in the Detroit Free Press earlier this year that claimed that a Prius only achieved 22 mpg? Or I had another person about a month ago insist to my face with a raised voice that Consumer Reports said that a Prius only got 35 mpg and thus I was stupid to have bought one, and that her Diesel Jetta does so much better. [/b][/quote] i think there are several points here... most of the "debate" on hybrids seems to really circulate around the "after you paid so much more for the hybrid powerplant, will you ever save enough gas through the better mileage to pay off the original investment?" i've never seen this argument won in favor of a hybrid unless the owner's got a commute that measures in at least tens of miles one way! maybe twenties of miles one way! for getting you there and back and using less fuel to do it, few things beat a hybrid, unless they human-powered, like a bicycle! no argument there.... but i do take exception to this paragraph in the article: "Hybrids, which save gas by relying on electric power, have different strengths with fuel efficiency. Toyotas and Fords are essentially electric vehicles that get some help from their gasoline engines, and do better in city driving. Honda hybrids are the opposite -- gas engines that get help from the battery and do better in highway driving. All recharge their batteries when braking." if you read the article i copied to http://www.plusaf.com/prius/patrickbedard.jpg , you'll see that the real miracle of the Prius hybrid is that it uses the engine and or electric motors for one purpose: to keep the gas engine operating at its most efficient operating points ! since the ICE is least efficient at idle (duh!) and under heavy acceleration, the electrics take over for those times. other than that, it's an ICE-electric balance to keep the ICE operating most efficiently. if you look at it in that sense, you can even blow holes in other companies' designs for not doing it exactly that way!
There was a similar rant by David Booth in the Canadian National Post, a financial paper. He *does* gush praise for certain models from BMW, Mercedes, Jag, etc that cost in excess of $140,000 Cdn, so we can see where his "logic" comes from. Check out this deranged rant: http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000250036615 I'm getting ready for work so I really can't spend too much time on this. According to the May 2004 CR, the current Prius got 35 city and 50 hwy, overall 44 MPG. The Dec 2000 CR reported the VW Golf TDI 5 spd got 29 city and 54 hwy, overall 41 MPG. I'll try to find the issue where they tested the VW Jetta with a tdi and automatic, it got around 10 MPG less. According to CR the VW's have horrible reliability, but if one references the blog above, CR lies all the time because people lie all the time about Toyota reliability. Like I lied about how awful my 2000 GMC Sierra was? Again, we see no shortage of misinformation and outright lies. Gotta run.
There is a certain logic to the rant, but he does take it to extremes. It's funny to constantly see people turn a blind eye to the Prius's faults, and deny that they exist. Hell, I did the same thing too, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. But on the other hand, it is *the* hybrid car for the moment, so it's an obvious target, so stuff like this is to be expected.
