[WARNING] Running out of gas (Gen III)

"chief weakness of the metric system is that it exisits in several variations"

- HAHAHAHHAAH WRONG! it can't exist in any variations other than what it is. Do you even know the metric system? it's easy - everything is base 10, there are no variations, There can't be.

water freezes at 0 degrees celsius.
it boils at 100.
1 litre of water is 1 kg.
a cube of water 10cm by 10cm is 1 litre and 1 kg.
there are 1000 grams in 1 kg
there are 1000 kg in a ton

there are 10 mm in a centimetre
100 cm in a metre
1000 metres in a km

And that's it!

---


"3/10 or 1/5 of a kilo."

- That just shows ignorance of the metric system. We don't use fractions, which you americans try to use all the time (even stupidly with your fuel prices, combining a metric decimal currency system with fractions) - we would say 200 grams or 300 grams. Half a kilo is 500 grams, but who would say 1/3 of a kilo? it just doesn't happen. One might say 1/4 of a kilo, which is 250 grams, and even 1/3 is 333 grams, but people just ask for things in grams to the clostest 100 of what they want, not a fraction of a kilo.

---

"A little extrapolation will show you that it will cost over $1 billion to change the signs for the entire interstate highway system. "

- abandon your "mile markers" - we don't have them, no other country I know of has them on the freeways, so you don't need them.


---

" A car going 30 mph is roughly 10 times the speed of a walking man. Try that question on a metric person."

- a person walks at 5km/h. so a car goping 100 is 20 times faster, a car going 50 is 10 times faster. Big deal, who even relates walking speed to a car speed or vice versa. Who on earth would be told the speed of a car, and then relate to it by working out how many times faster it is than walking?? Do you really do that in Usa? Your arguments appear quite silly by stating things that are just not done to back it up.

---

"A unit is just a unit. One is not superior than another. What you are saying is really culturally insensitive and sort of a type of reaction spoken without thinking. "

- This one is incredible in it's ignorance. Metric is superior, that's why NASA uses it. Eveyone who knows both knows it is superior. that's not in question. And what does it have to do with culture? only 3 countries in the world stick to the OUTDATED system - Burma, Liberia and USA.

 

We should respect native cultures (including native U.S. culture and native European culture) and not impose foreign standards on native cultures.

LOL ,yeah, let's remain in the dark ages!!!

Oh, and what european culture, there are no european natives other than white people.

 

I put your quote below so it can be read for all time.

You are very upset and very passionate. But being upset and insulting people is not a good argument for metric because it is illogical. I would expect a metric promoter to use more logic and less passion.

I am dismayed that you resort to insults in a civil discourse. Your use of insults, while showing your passion, hardly promotes your point. Try convincing us with facts - not opinions and allegations of dark ages. The use of the term dark ages is once again very Eurocentric. If things were dark, it was only in Europe.

And isn't "dark ages" an old fashion non-metric statement. You can do better than that as a metric promoter. Please do as you preach. If you like metric so much, please use only metric in your statements. A range of years may be more appropriate.

You state that metric countries don't use fractions. Surely they are not that backwards. You are joking - I hope.

I thought metric countries use fractions all the time. In case you don't know, "decimals" is short for "Decimal Fraction." All the French metric founders will turn over in their graves if they hear you say metric countries don't use fractions. You don't know what you are talking about - that's a fact.

As for your miles and kilometer remarks. Miles are more ergonomic. If I travel 30 miles, I've gone 10 leagues, about 10 hours in a marching pace that can be done in two days. That's something everyone can relate.

If I travel 30 kilometers, I have gone a fraction of a distance from a meridian that passed through some European cities which was measured a long time ago and which is actually wrong. How does that relate to anything in everyday life?

As for your allegation that there is only one metric system. I am sorry to disappoint you. The kilogram has been getting lighter and nobody knows why. See internet link below.

Scientists Struggling to Make the Kilogram Right Again - NYTimes.com

And the volt, which is defined by the kilogram (which is getting lighter) is changing too.

By the way, there was a 19th century definition of metric (e.g., length by a bar). There is a 20th century definition of metric (e.g. length by wavelengths). There will be a 21th century definition of metric once they figure out what to do with the kilogram. So there is no one definition of metric, it is a moving definition.

By the way, zero degrees in metric is not defined by the freezing point of water. That was old metric. Please update yourself. 0.01 degree is defined as the triple point of Vienna Standard Mean Ocean Water in 1955. You have to keep up to date with the changing metric system. As a result, water freezes at slightly less than zero now.

When adhering strictly to the two-point definition for calibration, the boiling point of Vienna Standard Mean Ocean Water under one standard atmosphere of pressure is actually 99.9839 °C. If you adhere to the 1990 standard, the boiling point of Vienna Standard Mean Ocean Water is about 99.974 °C.

I don't know which of the many metric standards to use.

As for your allegation that we are ignorant because NASA uses metric. Please check your facts. The space shuttle and space station are done in inches. Metric is used here and there to accommodate a few parts only. So if you want to follow NASA, please use inches.

You have insulted many people. I find you very doctrinal. You restate what others have taught you, regardless of truth, and without thinking for yourself. And when your facts fail you, you resort to insults.

As for your statement that "there are no european natives other than white people." It just shows what you are. I didn't know. Please explain your theories on this issue. I am all ears.

 

My god you are funny Rhino.

Everyone is out to get americans aren't they! No one in the modern world that uses metric cares about some distance from some meridian or otherwise. Is that why you americans don't take it up? general ignorance about it?

Oh, and i'm not upset or passionate, I can just see that america as a whole is limiting themselves by remaining in the "dark ages" and using "outdated and old" systems of measuring. I actually feel sorry for you all, and would like to see you as a country take a step forward. Use of the term "dark ages" wasn't literal.

And when I said 'no one uses fractions' I was specifically referring to the example someone gave of buying food using weight. Perhaps you should try to understand what you read before commending on it.

Thanks for correcting me on NASA - so I see it is worse than I thought in Usa.

 

"You have insulted many people. I find you very doctrinal. You restate what others have taught you, regardless of truth, and without thinking for yourself. And when your facts fail you, you resort to insults."

1. I didn't mean to insult anyone, and I do not believe I have. You have insulted many people. (see, saying it doesn't make it true)
2. I am not doctinal
3. I restate what others have taught me? so? what's your point? am I not allowed to pass on facts because they have been taught to me when I was a child?
4. whithout thinking for myself? HAHAHHAHAHA you so don't know me!
5. what facts have failed that caused me to insult someone?

And yes, lets turn this discussion about metric into one about how I write and all about me!

 

Metric is easy to work with, imperial is easy to relate to.

 

the fact of the matter is that the 7 defined units of SI are extremely easy to fit together, and that in extent, the derived units are easy to work with in accordance with the rest as well.
For example, in the kitchen. I measure the weight of some flour, and then I have to add milk to it. Luckily, thanks to SI, if I need to add 300ml of milk, 300 extra gram on the scales is going to be exact enough. (Milk isn't water, but it's close enough).
It's simple, for two reasons, one arguable, one not. For one, base 10 is simple, arguable, but most of the arguments on the other side boil down to "It's more natural". But the second factor, unarguable, that makes it so simple is that EVERYTHING is base 10. Litres, Metres, everything. This makes calculations with multiple units extremely easy.

So why should USA change? because America isn't a closed world. We live in a world of trade, and American standard units are different from that of the rest of the world. We don't have to visit the USA to be affected by imperial units. It's time for the world to choose one system, and metric is simply the system to choose, and has been chosen.

 

Here is another take on it from someone else:
The metric system is the easiest to use and calculate. Imperial units are easier to visualize, at least in the USA. The imperial system was created at a time when most trade was local and it was common practice to use certain units with specific commodities. This has survived as Troy weight for gold, silver, and platinum, and avoirdupois for cheaper materials. Metric does not make this distinction, but does distinguish between mass and force, more significant for space missions. Imperial was adequate when we were earthbound.
Imperial has many special-purpose units, one set of units for cloth, others for various foods, another for land, still another for watches, yet another for shoes. Metric has very few special units, and they are of such extreme sizes that they would not be useful for ordinary use.

 

Whoa whoa whoa - slow down there, pardner!

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram]Kilogram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

1kg is equal to the mass of the International Prototype Kilogram, and is the only metric unit based on a artifact rather than an actual physical property...

"After the International Prototype Kilogram had been found to vary in mass over time, the International Committee for Weights and Measures (known also by its French-language initials CIPM) recommended in 2005 that the kilogram be redefined in terms of a fundamental constant of nature. No final decision is expected before 2011."

In other words, a horse designed by committee... :rofl:

 

1 kg is 1 litre of water.
The International Committee for Weights and Measures probably thinks it needs things to do, so it starts debates over things. Nevertheless, 1 kg of water has always been and always will be 1kg. Just as 1ml is and always will be 1 gram.


The U.S. has changed in the past. You used to use a survey foot and now use the international foot, so I know you eventually can become metric. You just need more support from the media to gain acceptance with the general civilian population.

From someone in New Zealand:

I live in NZ, and we changed here during the early - mid 70's. I think the success is making the change legally, then running both systems side by side, until people get used to it. Petrol was delivered in both gallons, and liters, for example. Even the butter was sold as pound/500g, and marked in 50g/2oz slices. The butter was marked this way for quite a few years. From the viewpoint of a child, I heard the adults grumbling about it, then saw them getting used to the new system very quickly. What they were really grumbling about of course, was "change". In general, everyone is scared of the unknown, but whoever organised it here made it as smooth and easy as possible, given the actual difficulties.

 

We were on a path to change over in the 1980s.

Then Ronald Reagan was elected President. End of transition.

 

To continue Tom183's information from Wikipedia:

Since 1889, the SI system defines the magnitude of the kilogram to be equal to the mass of the International Prototype Kilogram,[1] often referred to in the professional metrology world as the “IPK”....

The IPK is one of three cylinders made in 1879. In 1883, it was found to be indistinguishable from the mass of the Kilogram of the Archives made eighty-four years prior, and was formally ratified as the kilogram by the 1st CGPM in 1889.
Modern measurements of the density of Vienna Standard Mean Ocean Water—purified water that has a carefully controlled isotopic composition—show that a cubic decimeter of water (10cm x 10cm x 10cm) at its point of maximum density, 3.984 °C, has a mass that is 25.05 parts per million less than the kilogram.This small difference, and the fact that the mass of the IPK was indistinguishable from the mass of the Kilogram of the Archives, speak volumes of the scientists’ skills over 211 years ago when making their measurements of water’s properties and in manufacturing the Kilogram of the Archives.

So, you're talking about a difference of 25 millionths, or 1/400,000ths. Not worth worrying about in every day use is it?

 

Roger,

First I am not agreeing with you. But you are really driving yourself into a frenzy.

It is not really that the US is unwilling to change. Most people correctly see that there is no immediate benefit. And please don't call people stupid. They are actually quite smart and practical.

All the scientist, engineers, already knows metric. If you don't know metric, you can't get a job in the US. I am one of those who is totally familiar with the system and I talk with European and Asians all the time. In fact, I am better than them because I can switch back and forth on two systems when most of them have no idea when they do imperial units. Metric benefit the scientist and engineers the most.

The semi-technical and non-technical people including most drivers of the Prius. And I am not putting them down. They don't calculate 30% solutions or 0.5 molar salt solutions, or trajectories or the volume of a house. They have no use for metric. The tradespeople use simple algorithms because the calculations are rough anyway (like two bucket of paint per 100 square feet (I'm making it up)) so they don't need calculations either. Metric will not help these people because they are so embedded in their way of life. And I have utmost respect for them and many of them are smarter than me. They don't need metric - the system is working for them. Most people don't calculate in any aspects of their daily life. They don't calculate mass energy conversions. They don't care how much a liter of water weights. You assume because it is important for you, it is important for everyone. More people are concerned about calories (metric by the way) in the U.S. than miles per gallon. As it should be. Miles per gallon is only important when you buy a car. Once you have it, and it is not malfunctioning, what does it matter except in some mpg hypermiling experiment which is highly entertaining but hardly essential to everyday life. Just get a Prius and forget it.

I am sometime like that. I've gone a month without using a calculator or doing a complex calculation. I really don't care if the measurement is in English, Metric, or old Roman. I know it take some money to fill up the car. That's it. I don't even look at how many gallons I fill. What for?

US people are very flexible and very bright. When US people see a benefit, they will switch. Witness the personal computer and the cell phone. Witness the Japanese car. Or the Chinese made goods? There are some setbacks but Americans are practical and despite all the talk about never buying Chinese again, China is a major trading partner now.

What I see in the U.S. is that as it gets more economically integrated with the rest of the world, it is slowly switching. Soccer is getting more common. The situation is getting more metric all the time. It just won't happen overnight.

I think one thing that keeps the switch from happening is all this talk about metric being superior, logical and such. It makes people defensive and it makes no friends. You would feel the same way if an American storm into your country, told you that you are all backwards and feels sorry for you, and you should all adapt American ways. That's what people accuse Americans of, but they turn around and do the same thing.

I know from my travels that people in other countries tie it in with anti-Americanism. "Americans think they are so smart and rich, they don't even know metric" is a common feeling. I take them by surprise when I demonstrate my knowledge to them.

Metric is not better and the people who use the old system are not ignorant, dumb, stuck in the mud or what have you. Metric allows us to integrate better with the rest of the world. The sledgehammer, you are an idiot, we are superior, I feel sorry for you, only 3 countries in the world uses your system, approach does not work. And I have shown you how some of these arguments don't hold water. When people tell you a concern, you can't just dismiss it off hand. Unfortunately, it seems that the teaching of metric in the other parts of the world seem to also teach this unpleasant aspect.

A good teacher never blame the student for not learning. A good teacher realizes that if a student does not learn, maybe it is a fault of the teaching style. They try to step into the shoe of the student.
Perhaps if you put it more mildly and in a positive mutually beneficial tone, it will come across better. When you start to treat what you consider students with respect and understanding, maybe your point will come across better.

And I am still free to disagree. People say why can't American's know more languages. And I know 3 languages. I say why can't you learn two systems of measurements. Is it so hard to learn 2?

You even talk like a caricature of an American. "It's time for the world to choose one system, and metric is simply the system to choose, and has been chosen." It sounds like a dictator. Just change one word and it becomes "It's time for the world to choose one system, and Americanism is simply the system to choose, and has been chosen." And you wonder why you don't make any friends?

You should get the best "bad caricature of an American" award.

 

Wrong. Metric is better!

There is no point in arguing with Americans, because you all hate change, even when it is for the better. That's why you were the last to use sim cards in your mobile phones. You all think that changing to be like another country means that you were not the greatest to begin with, so you reject it.

The fact of the matter is, that metric system is easier to work with. Period. you cannot argue with that, and that is all I am saying, that and that Usa should use it too, which is also a fact for many reasons. Usa should change and adopt the more logical and easier to use system. It makes logical sense to do so. It's so easy, you don't even have to memorise anything. If you thinks mall, and only intra-usa, then no, you dont need to change, but when you become part of the global community, using the same system as the rest of the world is the logical choice.

I realise that metric won't help the old people stuck in their ways and afraid of change, and I'm not saying they should change. I'm not saying anyone should instantly change to metric, I'm saying that Usa would be better off if they made the change, and it would take several years to do it, and for a long time, maybe a couple of generations, both systems would be in use side by side until you are weened off the old and everyone becomes used to the new improved global system.

I have noticed time and time again, that Usa simply does things to be different to the rest of the world, and I think this is a classic example. to do something the same as the rest of the world is to be a follower, and heaven forbid the almighty Usa be a follower and not a leader! That is what it is really all about.

And no, it isn't hard to learn two systems of measurement, just a pointless waste of time for anyone in the modern metric world. No one cares enough about the old system to even look at it. Only the really old people here still use feet and inches etc, using it is connected with being old and old-fashioned.

 

So upset with Americans. Proves my point exactly. It more than just metrics, isn't it. Hey, for all your internationalism, how many languages do you know? Have you gone outside your country? Travel a bit to see how the world really is? Why does your country still buy oil by the barrel in U.S. dollars if metric is so easy? And why does your country still control air traffic altitude in feet if metric is so great?

Roger Roger, there is no need to escalate. War is not the answer, only love can conquer hate. Don't judge us until you have walked a mile (1609 meters) in our shoes.

Try this approach (downloaded from web, not original from me). Learn something from me



Reasons to switch to metric (this is a joke guys):

Gas will seem cheaper at 70 cents a liter.

Being 22 kilos overweight does not sound as bad as 50 lbs.

Defense will be easier if the offense has to drive 10 meters for a first down.

Arizona summers will not seem as bad when its only 40 degrees outside.

Half a liter is more than a pint, which means, MORE BEER FOR EVERYBODY!

 

I do not know what you are talking about, I'm just posting info...
but seriously, I'm not "upset" with americans, (don't even know what you mean by that) I just dislike their arrogant 'better than the rest of the world' attitudes when i come across them, and am disapointed to find them here as well. (the attitudes, not the americans!)

You see, americans on the whole really do think they are the best in the world... unfortunate but true. And as such they will never entertain that they could learn from another country. That is why you haven't taken on the metric system where all other countries (bar 2) have.

We are always noticing things that show the Usa is behind the rest of the world in technology such as mobile phones and HDTV etc. It's funny. I won't bore you with examples.

Have a nice day. This has gone way off topic and should be closed.

 

You contradict yourself in the same sentence. You are not upset at Americans but dislike us.

Did I say anywhere that American's are better? I don't recall. Americans are already following - an old standard from Europe. We are following Europe. OK. And we are just talking about when Americans will follow a new standard from Europe. Americans are not doing anything but following. We are just not following as fast as the rest of the world. We don't lead at all. You don't know what you are talking about.

 

do you not know what 'upset' means? to me it means 'made to cause sadness'... maybe it means something different in Usa?

anyway, this topic is getting very boring now, so if you have nothing more to add, then we'll agree that metric should be adopted by Usa and leave it at that.

 

And I'm disappointed with the attitude that lumps us all into a single pigeonhole:

 

That can't be helped I'm afraid, the majority of something will always out-shine the minority.