Beloved Prius vs a 4WD

Rav4

 

The only time I got our Escape stuck (ours was on '01, they since changed the auto 4WD a bit) was when I tried to plow through compacted snow from a stand still. It got hung up on the frame. However, once I backed up and got some speed built up, it had no problems . I miss that little sport ute, but I no longer live in a state where it's needed. It also had one of the best ground clearances for its class (8" or more?).

 

Hi GBee..,

The other issue that can cause those stoped cars in Metropolitan winter snow storms is the poor slow-speed mileage / idle time of standard cars. Even a Focus, or something that size is going to be down around 10 mpg in such conditions. Its not uncommon to be in a line of cars going down the interstate at 10 mph, and then have them part and have a blacked-out empty car about 30 yards ahead of you just sitting there in the center lane. And with the slick conditions, one has to pull a sliding turn inbetween the traffic on either side to avoid tail-ending it. Can be tricky.

If you got more than 20 miles to go, and less than 1/4 of a tank in standard cars, your taking a big risk of running out of gas on a drive home in a big metropolitan area snow-storm. And people do it all the time.

 

Hey dimiH, just saw this review of Blizzaks in another thread. Says the Prius with the Blizzaks work better than any other car he's driven in the snow. He tested the car's acceleration and braking up/down hill to see where the limits were with the new tires. He was impressed.

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...-snow-tire-recommendations-2.html#post1019582

 

What about the flash update for the TC that needed to be done on the older Gen II's? That may be his problem?? I went through 4 inches of snow last winter on Integrities with 30k on them with no problem in my '08.

 

I agree with you here... 99% of my driving is done on clean pavement and/or on the highway, so, for me, snow tires are an unnecessary expense, especially with the MPG hit. If there's bad snow on the roadways I stay home, or if I'm heading to the hilltowns and weather is not looking good I carpool with someone who has studded snow tires and 4WD (a Subura Impreza with studded snows can do some impressive things in deep powder).

As someone who lives up here on the snowy / icy VT-MA border** I gotta say snow tires and chains have helped but my own personal experience is that the Prius just sucks in snow and on ice-- it wasn't designed for it. This partly due to the low clearance and, in my experience, mostly due to the effin' TC. The TC has gotten me into more trouble and accidents in winter than it's worth-- cutting off power to the wheels just as I go into a skid or as I'm going up a particularly steep part of hill, even with snow tires *and* chains... bad times to not have complete control over the vehicle. I don't take it out in the snow anymore.

Of course, though, if I want to ski I can just head out my back door, so am not in your situation. Would you consider driving your Prius upstate to a certain point, and then parking it and renting a car with better clearance / tires from there to get into the hills? It would be cheaper in the long haul.

**I do have to say that you don't want to become one of the SUV'ers with NYCT plates that fly through here on I-91 at 90 MPH... Most of our highway traffic on weekends are those folks, and I see a number of nasty, nasty accidents each winter caused by them... our EMT's still talk about the fatal ones from when I-91 was undergoing repairs and down to one lane in my town . No tires will help you when you're slamming into gridlock traffic at 80 MPH.

 

Driving on ice/snow without snow tires is like going fishing without any bait. You may get lucky, but why not improve the odds? Whether we use the awd hybrid lexus suv, or the Prius in the snow ... we DON'T do it without the right equipment.

.

 

Being from MN, I don't understand you much either.
My Prius, with snow tires, did just fine in the 14 inch snowstorm we just had.
True, I didn't off road with it. As the person you responded to said, if you need to off road, you SHOULD be using a different vehicle.
So with the recent above average snowfall, I got around just fine, passing more than one F-250 that was in the ditch by the way (and many more sporty little red cars too).

 

I haven't read every single post in this thread, since some of them are a little nasty, but no one seems to have mentioned the most important equipment in winter driving--a skillful driver.

I learned to drive in Dupage and Cook Counties, IL, right after chains and studded tires were outlawed there in the early 70s. And rear-wheel drive was the norm. You had to learn to drive well in slick conditions or you didn't drive. Then I went to engineering school and learned that the coefficient of static friction is much higher than that of kinetic friction, which is a fancy way of saying that you should never spin your tires. Thus the thinking behind the traction control.

Then I moved to the Colorado Front Range foothills and retired, and went backcountry skiing 3-5 days a week, 5-6 months a year. I also got involved in volunteer fire/rescue, and took a winter driving course in Steamboat, and spent a couple of days at the Colorado State Patrol training track, adding to the skill set. I always drove a subcompact FWD car with good all-season radials. I had a set of chains in the back but never even took them out of the box. I'd leave my personal vehicle at home during the mountain blizzards. I refused to get sucked into the SUV culture, and it worked for me. But I could afford to be flexible, and many can't.

I've never had my Prius in more than a few inches of dry powder snow, so no help there, sorry. I can understand the frustration with the TC, though, from a few experiences on steep gravel. I think the TC is made for people who will never learn to drive in slick conditions. ABS is great, though.

 

Good traction control helps even skilled drivers. A good traction control system can apply individual brakes, which is something no driver can do.

Unfortunately the Gen II Prius does not have a good TC system. It exists mostly to protect the drive system, not improve traction. Reportedly the Gen III system is much improved.

Tom

 

Actually andrew, if you go back over the years of threads dealing with prius ice/snow traction, you'll find THIS thread is pretty civil. The topic is very polarizing, with folks lining up on one side or the other ... saying in essence either that, "this car's traction is crap" ... while the other side says, "if you knew how to ice drive like ME, you'd realize it wasn't the car, just the driver" ... and digressing quickly after the initial salvo. I thank everyone in advance for not going down that deep rut any farther than we've already gone ... no amount of traction control will get us unstuck from that


.

 

OMG!!!! A driver who actually took the responsibility to learn to drive instead of "I'm going to buy an SUV because I am easily intimidated" My glass is raised to you, good sir. :tea:

To add just a little confirmation bias: interstingly, I was on the highway during a recent freezing rain event. Quite a few cars had spun into the ditch, which had a rather steep embankment. Every single SUV that entered the roadside ditch had rolled over (with some very ugly results in 2 cases). The actual cars were still shiny side up.

 

Out here in California we measure our snowfall in feet - not inches. Have you ever heard of Tahoe or Mammoth or the Sierra's? All of those are in California. We had a 6 foot dump a few weeks ago - they decided to close the schools for the day. 24 hours later, everything was back to normal - just whiter.

Our solution out here - snow tires and always carry chains or cables. (I carry both - cables for normal snowy roads, chains for deeper stuff). They're a PITA to put on and take off - a good 30 minutes out of your day to do the round trip, but they get you where you need to go. Neither will get you through unplowed roads, but even with a $21B debt, CalTrans is still pretty good about keeping the roads open.

 

Tire chains or cables = big fat ticket here

 

On certain days across our passes, no tire chains or cables installed on 2WD = big fat ticket if you get stuck.

On a few of those days, here and at the passes between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe, no tire chains or cables installed = man with gun standing in middle of road orders you to turn around.

 

They are legal here in Michigan, so long as they don't contact the pavement.

Tom

 

I have a 07 prius touring. Just skimmed through this thread and wanted to give my thoughts. We just had our first snowfall in Portland, OR last night. Portland does not get much snow, but does see severe ice at times. Portland also has very limited snow clearing resources so all the side streets are unplowed. The surrounding mountains have snow year round. I installed Nokian Hakkapeliitta Rsi's(studless dedicated winter) on all wheels. The difference was amazing. I took snow covered steep inclines and declines with no problems. A Jetta had to turn away from the hill I was climbing. Many cars were abandoned on the curbs. In fact, the traction control light never even went off until I started testing hard braking. I even passed a pickup truck with chains! Anyhow, compared to my oem tires last winter this was a huge difference. I bought my tires and wheels(15 inch oems) from different sources on ebay and had them installed locally. My total cost was ~$680. I would seriously consider investing in tires before going with a second vehicle, especially considering insurance, maintenance, and storage. There does seem to be a mileage penalty, but I think the security is well worth it. I average 45 mpg in the summer, and 37 in the winter. With the snow tires, I am down to 34. (Several low mileage trips per day)

 

Meah,
Heres a government web site showing who gets how much ... whether under 5" ... or over 200" ... live updated ... you might be surprised.

Recent Snowfall and Snow Depth Maps | National Current Snow Depth

Surprised, unless you actually live in areas with either a red or black dot ...
It looks to me like Washington takes the cake ...
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