Insight gets better MPG than Prius???

You got it. X 2010 Insight owner

 

I, too, took the opportunity to test drive both the Insight and the 2010 Prius. I found it an easy decision on purchase. The Prius was so "seamless" in comparison to the Insight. Everything worked together in the Prius, while the Insight seemed to be in development and rather disjointed - a little cluncky. It made my decision to purchase the Prius an easy matter. Perhaps Honda will pull things together in the next few years. The Prius is just an amazing vehicle!

 

Insight is faster, I test drove them back to back. See specs.
2010 Honda Insight vs 2010 Toyota Prius - Specs - Comparison - Motor Trend

Prius is some 300 pounds heavier than the insight & other cars I've had in the past. Focus, Sentra. I can't blame the Prius for being heavy, but it didn't interest me.

Regarding MPG -
Insight 90.6 mpg
Prius 89.1 mpg
2009 Midwest Automotive Media Association Fall Rally - CleanMPG Forums

This months issue of Car & Driver on page 56 under the 10 best & 10 worst performers has the Insight as the best C&D observed fuel economy at 46. I'd post a link, but I couldn't find it on the website. Look in your library.

On the EPA website under category of estimates from drivers like you, the avg is 49.2 insight, 50.3 prius. Seeing that & reading the thread on priuschat about the EPA numbers is what first led me to turn my attention to the Insight. The mpg difference is marginal compared to the price difference.

CR ripped the Insight. I own the Insight & along with the other owners can't understand the CR conclusion. I trust CR about as much as you Prius owners do.
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...eration-according-consumer-reports-tests.html

Regarding the Motortrend blog. In the above link Motortrend gave the Insight 1st place & the Prius 2nd. CNET also recommended the Insight over the Prius & rated it better in performance.
http://cnettv.cnet.com/2010-toyota-prius-vs-2010-honda-insight/9742-1_53-50074482.html

The AC running off of ICE does not concern me. I used to turn the AC off at stoplights in my old Focus & barely ever run it. When summer comes I will have no problem doing the same in the Insight. Come on we're hybrid owners, we're the epitome of frugal & being conservative.

I have had no problem with autostop staying off. There's been reports of people waiting for a train for 10 min with autostop staying off. You do have to turn the heater off before stopping when in cold weather, but again it's wasteful to run the heater at a stop anyways. I also hardly ever use the heater, because it effects fuel economy.

I have no problem with the small back seat & never have a full car of passengers. I wish the Insight was a couple inches shorter, because the Insight looks too long.

Conclusion - I love my Insight & would be very unhappy in a Prius. You love your Prius & would be very unhappy in an Insight. We could both waste all day linking articles saying one is better, but it's a beautiful Saturday & I'm taking my Insight to the mountains for a nice run in the snow. (I'm running on snow, not the Insight)

 

There is no way in hell you can feel a difference of 1/10th of a second between the two cars. You can easily see a 3/10ths variation in any back to back 1/4mile run due to weather and efficiency dynamics within the car itself. Claiming one car to be definitively faster than the other with a 1/10th and 1mph difference is non-conclusive IMO. This is especially true when they used a loaded 17" wheel equipped Prius.

 

But the size difference is not marginal for those that care about that sort of thing.

In all if you are happy with your Insight then I am happy too. It's a nice car and I'd rather people switch to an Insight than a giant SUV so technically we are all on the same team.

 

I have no idea what they did but I'm guessing they got their figures swapped. I wouldn't be surprised if they issued a correction.

Edmunds found exactly the opposite 2010 Honda Insight vs. 2010 Toyota Prius Comparison Test on Inside Line as did Consumer Reports. Every single acceleration figure in CR shows the 2010 Prius is faster. The same goes for http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezf...lication/c25f91204b3af2dd071f848fa067bde7.pdf, even though for some bizarro reason they picked the Insight over the Prius and must've screwed up on their noise figures because they don't jive w/the article text.

The Insight, Focus and Sentra aren't midsized cars. The Prius is. Also, since you mention past cars, well, cars have become more bloated and heavier over time. See http://www.epa.gov/oms/cert/mpg/fetrends/420s09001.pdf and Minicars? I don't See No Stinking Minicars - Column - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver,.
[/QUOTE]

edit: Car and Driver also achieved 4 mpg better fuel economy on the Prius than the Insight in the table I mentioned earlier.

 

I noticed in the link above posted by cwerdna that Edmunds got below the Prius EPA and above the Insight EPA, which is a common theme.
Fuel Sipper Smackdown 2: Which Car Gets the Best Fuel Economy?

More accurately it's common to see drivers get a higher percentage above insight EPA then the Prius.

Insight 121% above EPA
Prius 78% above EPA

2009 Midwest Automotive Media Association Fall Rally - CleanMPG Forums

 

I bought the Insight & love it.
I am unable to help you, but I bet you could get an answer by asking here.
Honda Insight MPG - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

 

This is as it should be! We may or may not share the same requirements ... we may or may not put the same value on similar requirements. What we do share is our joint commitment to efficient transportation.

Welcome to the fight against the 2nd Law

Bob Wilson

 

despite its troll-ish allure, i cannot for the life of me understand why we keep going on about this.

its a rare person who would ever concede "oh, NOW i see, you're absolutely right, i DID waste 20-some-odd thousand dollars on my car of choice".

youre not comparing a 19k tricycle to a 22k harley here. look at the specs, read the reviews, look at the price, make a choice. any of these "despite terrible reviews, i find my car gets 23402040% better milage than whats widely reported" are trivial, and at large, useless. no one cares about the outlying statistic unless they're looking for it to prove something, or to make themselves feel better about a decision. if on average a car does something, then that's a fair-but-slightly-variable assessment of its performance regarding that one something.

the hive mind is generally accurate. the rare above average performances reported by handfuls of users almost always require that the user act or drive in a way that is inconsistent with even "good" drivers. also consider that these forums are a GREAT place to quickly breed boasting, results-stretching anectodes, and outright misinformation. buy the car you'll be happy with on your worst days, not the one you need to finagle to do what you'd like it to.

 

Being the odd duck I am, a few days ago I was killing time at the Honda Insight forum website. There was a thread for new Insight owners that (I'm paraphrasing from memory) asked if now in light of disappointing sales figures and more or less losing the opening round against the 2010 Prius, if owners were upset or would they make the same purchase.

Of course the responses covered the entire spectrum. But in general what I found interesting was that these are people that did purchase the Insight and are dedicated enough to post in an Insight forum and the term that kept coming up, thread after thread was "compromise".

Even if happy with the purchase and the car so many people defined it as a good compromise...or a compromise worth making...

I think that shakes down from the top, the genesis. Honda compromised with the Insight and even Insight owners and supporters feel this. The Insight is not quite the bargain it was suppose to be, it's not quite the groundbreaking new definition of Hybrid it was touted to be, it seems to do everything with a reasonable amount of "fine" but nothing exceptionally well. Thus even the Honda supporters and owners are defining there ownership experience within terms of compromise.

This was unfortunately IMO a mistake. Honda didn't have to redefine Hybrid, or beat The Prius on all fronts, but it was imperative that Honda set a benchmark in at least some areas. Insight owners are hard pressed to find that benchmark, outside of an relatively small difference in purchase price, often very negligible in comparison to a Prius II.

I currently own a Honda. I love Honda. To be honest, I like the dash inside the Insight better than the new sweeping buttress dash of The Prius. But in evaluating which hatchback hybrid to buy, almost nothing ends up on the side of The Insight. Honda made the mistake of building to a price point instead of creating a product that could really make a difference. They will have to regroup on this one I think. A lot of people were waiting for a real competitor for The Prius, and what Honda delivered is a product that even there own new owners are defining as at best a good compromise.

I do think The Insight is a better product than some of it's reviews suggest. IMO it is NOT "biblically terrible" or the worst car available. Unfortunately those reviews and statements can really hurt a automobile upon launch.

As a Prius supporter but a Honda Owner, before the release of both the 2010 Prius and the 2010 Insight I was really hoping for a better level of competition. I think Toyota sacrificed in terms of keeping new Prius price low in packages II and III and I think Honda compromised in creating a product. When compromise vs. sacrifice...sacrifice will usually win.

 

Thanks but I'll have to pass on joining a non-Pius web site. It is too easy to find my requests for basic engineering data accused of being TROLL.

Although I have no doubt they have many fine folks there, I'd best hang at sites where I can contribute to the art. For example. if someone asks me for backup data about the Prius, I have a 1.5L 2003 and 1.8L Prius and can "do the experiment." This is important to me.

Bob Wilson

 

Just to clarify from my post, I visit lots of "Hybrid" information sites, including the Insight forum BUT since I don't intend to purchase a Honda Insight, I go just to get some information. Like Prius Chat, I find owner forums the best place to get real world feedback on automobile quality and real world ownership experience. But I don't post on the Insight site as I think it would be false of myself as neither a potential owner or current supporter of the product. Even if I was harmlessly asking for information it would be too much like trolling.

The temptation to herald the Prius as superior to Insight even if inadvertently, would be too great. I mean what could I say? I'm happy, your happy with your "compromise"?

 

Interesting article from Motor Trend. Their selection is based on estimated MSRP. LOL!

The Prius II MSRP is only $400 more than the Insight MSRP.

 

Like you I'm an odd duck. I don't want to stir the pot & hopefully we can keep this discussion between you & I, but I don't see my Insight as a compromise. I do understand people seek different things in cars.

I like the Insight's exterior, lights, paint (clear sky blue is beautiful!) size, weight, interior room, dash, cost, ride, performance, over the Prius. I can expand on any of these if you want. The Prius keyless is cool. I would like that in the insight.

If Honda sold the Insight without the hybrid system I would buy it. The hybrid part is icing on the cake. If the Prius was $1,000 under the Insight I would still buy the Insight over the Prius. I love the Insight. So why am I here? I was talking with a Prius owner who stated she gets better winter mileage compared to summer, so I came here to see if it was true. Then I saw this thread & could not keep from defending my lil' insight. I'll buzz off soon. I've read that post on the insight forum & the majority are in the camp that they love their insight despite the low sales. The ones writing it was a compromise are meaning that Honda could have made the car better. I remember reading a thread here on changes Prius owners would like to make to the Gen 3. No car is perfect.

The mpg is a compromise compared to the Prius & is the only advantage that the Prius has for me (besides the keyless), but the $2,000 difference easily offsets this. (I bought an EX for invoice of 20,700, I figure the best I could have gotten the II for was maybe 450 off. So 22,700). I'm perfectly content with the Insight mpg. $2,000 buys 696.86 gallons of extra gas at $2.87 a gallon. That's 31,360 extra miles.

One point I have to address. I don't understand reviewers & members here bashing the Insight interior. Both cars have durable, yet hard, light, cheap plastics (which is what I prefer in a hybrid where weight is of utmost importance). The difference is the Insight looks techy & the Prius looks upscale. The key is that the cheap factor fits the tech look better than the upscale look. When I test drove the Prius the interior presented as confused. Luxuriously cheap, like a gold colored plastic necklace out of a gumball machine.

But what's it matter, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

We really need more details but I can share my mileage in our 2003 Prius as a function of temperature:

I would expect folks living in the Southwestern desert areas to find their mileage improves in the 'winter' versus 'summer.' I live in Huntsville AL and up until the low 80s, I don't have to use air conditioning. But depending upon humidity, from middle 80s and above, I have to use the AC or risk heat stroke.

Now I understand you're not quite as interested in hybrid propulsion systems. I'm good with that but if you ever have any questions or would like to contribute to our engineering understanding, feel free to hang around. In particular, I'm interested in filling out the 'mph vs MPG' chart for the Insight:


GOOD LUCK!

Bob Wilson

 

Thanks bwilson4web. That's a great graph & very helpful.

In the first one what was the speed driven?
Was the heater or AC run during this?

The Insight number look correct to me in mpg vs mph. Top speed so far is 63, so I don't know above that.

Seeing this makes me look forward to the warm months to see what mileage I get. I've filled up 3 times. The first tank I overflowed the stop feature on the gas pump after I picked it up at the dealer. The 2nd & 3rd tanks have been 44 mpg with pretty conservative driving. I'm hoping for 48-49 in summer.

I questioned the lady who told me she gets better winter mileage. Maybe she blasts the AC in summer, or all the summer construction takes a big effect.

I will keep you in mind when I see people doing tests with the Insight & will let you know when numbers that come up. Also I'll keep an eye on my current mpg at speeds to find a norm.

 

Well, that's fine, I didn't say EVERYONE thought the Insight was a compromise. I was just suprised at how many owners seemed to gravitate towards that description of there own car. Especially within an Insight Forum. The term "Compromise" came up in a lot of posts.

I'd assume most people at least initially enjoy the automobile they purchase, otherwise they wouldn't purchase it.

I agree, like I said, as far as dash and if we are not talking leather interior, I like The Insights dash and cloth interior better.

I also feel bad for Honda as I think some carefully placed and really unfair reviews have hurt the Insight. I think HSD and The Prius is a superior machine BUT some of the "reviews" of The Insight IMO have been unfair.

I'm all for choice and competition. I think it makes all available products better. I'd rather the Insight be selling well, and The Prius selling well.

I would say, though I think the Insight has taken some unfair hits with some reviews and I think it is a better product than it has been defined by many, I still think Honda did make a mistake.

They released a automobile that can't help by design and looks to be compared to The Prius. Then, outside of asthetics like The Dash, and cloth seats, and a small sometimes non-existent price difference, they made it underachieve in almost every category.
They can call it "The Hybrid for Everyone" but what it is when you look at The Insight and The Prius side by side, is the Hybrid that becomes the idiot banjo playing hybrid...It's "Prius" Lite...

Honda rightly makes a big deal about the Original Insight, and the original Insight while not practical for many, did have an very loyal cultish following. Plus is was special...it did get GREAT gas mileage. What's special about this new Insight? The basic design we've seen for about a decade with The Prius, only bigger and better. The Insight has trouble even competing with it's own stable with the Civic Hybrid.

If the idea was to so severely underprice The Prius that the Insight would gain a whole bunch of younger more budget minded Hybrid purchasers, then it failed. The price gap is not enough for most people.

If the idea was to offer a better product, at a better price, then to each there own, but most people in comparing The Prius and The Insight end up liking The Prius better.

I don't know if it is Toyota brilliantly countering with keeping Prius prices low enough to short circut Hondas grass roots "Hybrid for Everyone" campaign, or it's just some nasty (unfair) reviews coupled with low gas prices and a well received 2010 Toyota Prius. But if I was a Honda Salesman, I'd think the Insight would be a hard sell right now.

Since I own a Honda, I have recently been in a Honda Dealership. The brochure and literature they had in regards to The Insight was a review inwhich The Insight was rated higher than The Prius and other Hybrids. But the jist of the whole thing was that The Insight was "more fun" to drive.

I don't know if that's enough to make The Insight the choice of many people. If there really isn't a big price difference, as a Hybrid shopper, I'm probably going to go with the bigger Prius, with the power mode, and better gas mileage and think I made the right choice.

But I'm glad for you or anyone that is happy with the Insight. But when it comes to the industry hyped showdown between Prius and Insight? I feel like I just witnessed a big prize fight inwhich the first round bell rang and the two fighters stepped out and the other landed a single punch flooring the other. Prius is standing, and The Insight is hearing numbers in it's ears....

It's early, for both the 2010 Prius and The 2010 Insight. But you have to wonder with this difficult economy how long can Honda support The Insight? Now it seems their response is going to be to tweak the marketing? It's not the marketing that needs to be tweaked, it's the product, and I don't think Honda can, and or is willing to admit that at this point.

 

You're welcome!

The chart raw data comes from the old GreenHybrid.com database. That former database required providing a "temperature" for each tank but the 2003 Prius goes a little over two weeks per fill-up in normal operation. Unfortunately, temperatures can vary quite a bit including about 10-20 degree change from the morning commute, near the coolest part of the day and the evening commute, near the heat of the day. When I plotted the MPG, there was an unexplainable dip at 70F but when I compared my data to other NHW11 records, there was no dip. This suggested observer bias ... and I was the observer.

So what I did was a math trick I've used in the past with "noisy" data. I apply a Gaussian filter, to even out the temperatures and this looks to have removed the observer "noise." I have other charts that show 'mph vs MPG' where the temperatures were constant.

I recommend folks find a mileage database that allows inspection of the detailed records by 'researchers' ... like me:

• MyHybridCar.com - is my primary database since it provides detailed records for all makes and models of hybrids.
• Fuel Economy - is a backup, not as detailed, it is across all models so diesels gas-only cars are covered.
• Ecomodder.com - a group of car enthusists who modify their cars to improve mileage for every make and model imaginable. They are one of the best collections of applied engineers on the net today.

There are others but these are my top picks.

Bob Wilson

 

i would definitely give any competitive comparison of interior-materials-used to the Insight without much hesitation. It feels more substantial, of higher quality or maybe "ruggedness".

I do prefer the interior design of the prius, (though the insight had me for a sec.) and cash for clunkers kinda negated the price difference. before cash for clunkers i was comfortable spending 21k for an insight.... with C4C i ended up spending less than that for a gen III prius. I definitely feel like i've stretched my dollar wisely in this regard.


this comparison is humorously similar to this decade's civic vs. corolla "war"...except it feels like the prius is the "civic" this time around