Prius Conversion to E85 Ethanol?

I really like the way your response was written out, thanks! A while back, a news station did a story where a guy who owns a company that makes ethanol donated his 2000 Tahoe that had 100k miles and ran nothing but e85, even though that particular Tahoe was not designed for it. He donated it to an organization headed by a few professors from his local school and they proceeded to disassemble the vehicle proving part by part that there was not only no damage, but less damage and wear on the vehicle running an 85% ethanol mix.

As far as Toyota not shipping any flexfuel vehicles, they actually do one that I know of. Though it is not the Prius, they do ship a Tundra, and if you google it you will find that they describe various parts they change out. The weird thing is they only do this in USA/Canada/Mexico... They change some tubes, but in the same sense that Porsche does if you want to race and need more flow. In fact the only reason they seem to be doing this in America is because you get less BTU's with ethanol even though it is higher octane. So they change the fuel pump, and a few lines to try to get more volume through. It operates fine without it, and overseas they don't even bother with the extra parts.

It was a good question, and it was the same thing that I was curious about when I first became interested in Ethanol.

FYI, I am pretty passionate about this because 50% of my income comes from a farm, and I think I owe it to myself and my community to transition somewhat to a fuel that's closer to home. I would never try to sell the car to get rid of a problem I made, I would eat the cost so never fear, carfax does not need a new category. The only improvement I see anytime soon would be the Chevy Volt, and if it comes out here in rural IL anytime within the next 5 years I might consider it. I'm hoping they come out with a hydrogen electric fuel cell car soon, but until then we just need to explore other avenues.
-Brad

 

Dear Brad:
That's what makes this ole world go 'round; it takes all kinds. In an open forum such as this one, posters can show up with passion, anger, venom, whatever you want to call it, just as easily as they can show up with genuine scientific curiosity. I haven't taken a strong position that fuel system components such as lines, seals, and injectors can withstand E50 or E85 and last as long as they do with E10, because of the simple fact that I don't know. Do you know what specifically it is about the metallurgy or the makeup of the plastics that allowed E10 not to damage them, and what further must be done to make them E85-compatible? In your earlier post you said: "Due to the higher compression ratio on the 2010, and the fact that they did not put in a fuel bladder, I felt over confident that I could try the e85 conversion system now. (Even though I feel it's safe with older Prii.)" Of course, my '01 model has the bladder and I splash-mixed for 6 months anyway, but if I had done it for years, who's to say it would (or would not) have damaged the bladder, the injectors, etc? I just don't know.

What drove me to run the test in the first place, and what's keeping my interest in the subject even now, is curiosity about renewable fuels made here in the US, and about the pure science aside from all politics.

Merry Christmas
.....MontyMan.

 

Actually, the fuel bladder would probably be safe. I mentioned the compression ratio, because even though it isn't necessary a higher compression ratio it is usually friendly with, or requires high octane fuel. I kind of think that they might have retarded the timing to get the prius on regular fuel in the first place, but that is another subject. haha

Your right, and I am sorry to anyone I might of offended. I honestly understand why people would be skeptical or hesitant. I just felt personally attacked. The fact of the matter is, I can afford to risk it, and I have faith. hehe

The plastics should be absolutely compatible, though I am not a plastics or polymer expert. I can say that methanol is much much much more harsh and corrosive than ethanol, and yet they say it can take 15% methanol, and only 10% ethanol. I'm thinking that's just because of how the gas companies tend to mix their product. I feel that I have done a lot of research on the matter, but I'm just not sure how to find out about the plastics specifically.

I do promise however, to report back and let you guys know how everything goes, both short term and long. I can honestly say I will occasionally put in regular gas. The kit I'm using allows for any type of gas, or ethanol mix, it just enables you to use a higher octane fuel. I feel that occasionally using regular fuel might help to lubricate things just a bit. I honestly think that is sort of being overcautious though.

I'm actually wondering now, if this is a liability thing. An example would be the top model prii having the software and ability to park itself in all countries, but with disabled software in the USA because of a lawsuit concern, or maybe just the fact that we didn't pay for the software rights in the price of our car. They were selling it on the lexus rx models at the same time. I'll explain below to break up the paragraphs a bit.

Toyota might have a limited range that they can tweak the mixture of the gas and air, and maybe a limit to the ability to adjust the timing. That said they may just have a certain range of octane that the car can adapt to. Ex: 60-90. That way, if you get some old crappy gas or gas with water or some other contaminate, it can adjust and save itself. If we need to run 105 octane ethanol, it might take away that safeguard of adjusting to a low octane crap fuel and that could mean the occasional problem, or possible warranty fix. That is just my personal theory, not proof. Just sharing my train of thought.

I'll let you guys know how it goes!
-Brad

 

Everybody needs a hobby :_> Have fun.

 

Hehe, sure thing Richard. Sorry for my mini-spaz. If something horrible happens I will let you guys know and you can laugh and say "haha, told you so!"

 

And look at the bright side: if the ethanol doesn't work out as fuel, you can always drink it.

Tom

 

Hi Brad. While I wouldn't personally want to risk it with my Prius I would never the less be interested in what type of gas milage you end up getting with E85. Make sure you keep us all updated.

 

I definitely will. Someone else modified a Prius to run on fuel made from Algae. HAHA

Today, just as an experiment with a stock-based setup I filled up with 7 gallons of e10 fuel, and then I put in the last three with e85. I drove home and the car was indistinguishable. There was no knocking, or difference in performance whatsoever. Just to be careful, I'm going to wait until I get the kit to try any more. hehe

 

It is effectively E32.5, it will likely run OK.
Next time try 7 gal of E85 and 3 gal of E10 and report back how it runs,
thanks in advance.
It is you turn to calculate the effective ethanol percentage.

 

It will run perfectly well on any E up to 85, until something rots out.

 

It will run, but the engine will be lack of power. E85 only has 66% energy content of E10. It will retain the same power output if the fuel pump and fuel injectors are replaced with the correct flow rates.

 

Well we will see Mr. Negative.

Any proof?

 

I've since found that several prii have already been converted to e85. I'll be sure to report back and let you guys know what kind of mileage I get. Before too long, when they become more readily available I will be converting to a plug in.

 

Hmmmm, E85...wouldn't that be about 170?

:drum:

 

Well, I'm not sure if you mean octane, I don't think so.. That sounds a bit high.

 

He meant 170 proof.

 

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_proof"]Alcoholic proof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

In the US, Proof is 2:1, but in the UK it is 7:4, so there, E85 would be 149 Proof

ethanol's RON is 129 (102 MON, 116 AKI in the US) E85 will be near 95 AKI.

 

You forgot to mention the extra tuning they used to get those higher number. Simply adding higher octane fuel wouldn't produce such and effect. It only allowed you to up the timing and/or boost levels to adjust for the higher octane that resists detonation better. I know, I'm a former "meth head". lol

 

That's right F8L ... yet the irony continues.
No matter how many times we post the numbers (pollution / wasted energy just to create the grain fuel ... lower power yield from the fuel, etc) folks not only continue to "ask" if it's a good thing (much less tout that is better than conventional fuels) they continue to proselytize how it's a great thing. We're loosing track of the number of times we've laid out the numbers ... so when these all-knowing grain advocates mock, "see? you STILL haven't shown me any numbers" ... they're really saying, "I'm too lazy to research ... and choose to believe my current view".
.
So ... sometimes I simply say, "the search tool is a wonderful thing". Other times I say, "right ... grain fuel is wonderful ... if you farm the source product".

 

This whole thread is rife with irony. E85 is a joke in this country. Corn for fuel is so wrong on so many levels.