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Enginer 2010 PHEV Technical Information

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by atfsi, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    I don't think Medusa is going out of business...just not selling direct. I got mine from one of the model aircraft supply houses.

    The 2 red wires are just for the + side of the power pack. They are connected to the same place...so I just cut one of them off. The black wires are connected in series with the shunt. I replaced the #10 wires with #6 and added an Anderson connector.

    The other option would have been to remove the shunt from the board and move the display to the front of the car.

    The hardest part was de-soldering the display from the board to access the shunt.

    The software is easy to use, logs the data, and the display can be customized by selecting from menus.

    I've ordered 2 of the thermocouples (?) to add battery temperature.
     
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  2. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    Just heard from Jack...the GenIII case is on it's way....I'll be posting the install photos when it gets here....

    Jack B
     
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  3. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    Progress ! Finally used the monitor to get a discharge curve for the Mottcells. The result is surprising. It looks like the charge and discharge voltages are too low. The chart shows the average discharge curve for a balanced (low) set (16 cells) of 40AHr Mottcells. The vertical lines are the open (no load) voltages at those points. Ooops...the horizontal axis is AmpHrs.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Next step....charge curve of Volts/cell vs Amp Hours for the same 16 cells. The vertical lines are again the open circuit voltages. Note the constant current then constant voltage type of behavior.

    When I checked the cells after the initial discharge and sitting overnight, they were in better balance than I started with !

    I'm going to do another discharge curve then balance the second string of batteries. Finally, I'll do the same thing w/ the full 4KWH pack of Mottcells.

    The discharge is done w/ a nominal 2.5 ohm nichrome resistor.
     
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  5. radioprius1

    radioprius1 Climate Conspirisist

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    Argh, I want to do this, and it's so cheap. I just worry about the warranty on my brand new car.
     
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  6. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    [​IMG]

    This discharge curve completes a full cycle starting w/ the discharge to 46V (pack voltage cutoff for the DC/DC converter), charging w/ the Enginer charger (~35AH) and discharging again to 46V (~32AH) If the cells are in great balance again tomorrow I'll be getting rather enthusiastic about this balance low business.

    PS: The new case is due here Nov. 30......
     
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  7. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    Here's a shot of the installation the new case for the 2010 Prius.

    [​IMG]

    The "x"ed out areas are pieces I removed for my first attempt at a fit w/o cutting any of the Prius plastic. It fit, but wasn't really centered. Jack suggested cutting back the plastic exhaust vent. I cut it back 1.5" and thinks fit ok. You want to note that the hold down for the wire harness had to be removed and I will have to put some sort of pad there to keep that harness from chaffing against the case.

    I also cut away the forward leg of the 12v battery cover to give more room for the muffin fan exhaust out of the case. It only supports that very small area.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    OK, here's the way I installed the prototype 2010 case.

    I decided that the nut plates that came w/ the case would be tough to get into the support beams from the inside so instead I used KLIK Rivet Nuts that I had on hand.

    [​IMG]

    Two problems, the sheet metal is not thick enough for the grip range on these nuts and the metal can flex around a hole of that size. The cure to both of these was to add 2 fender washers under each nut (and drill a 1/2" hole instead of 17/32 and drive the inserts in w/ a hammer)

    To set these inserts, I use my homebrew setup....

    [​IMG]

    I use a socket head bolt with a heavy nut and 2 spacer washers ..... lubricate w/ grease ......this picture doesn't show the fender washers.

    Installing looks like this......

    [​IMG]

    Notice that there are 3 torque arms in this picture: the allen wrench to hold the bolt from turning, the wrench w/ a pipe on it to tighten the nut and draw the insert into the locked position, and another arm (I used one of the mounting rails) which keeps the nut from turning the insert while you are setting it.

    Here's the right hand anchors as installed....

    [​IMG]

    Here's the right hand rail bolted in position. Note the bent up flap to clear the 12V battery tie-down mount.

    [​IMG]

    The left side inserts installed....

    [​IMG]

    The left mounting rail (adjustable) bolted in w/ more fender washers ...

    [​IMG]

    AND it all fits !

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    Here's a shot of the "buddy" cell setup. The Anderson connectors are for testing and balancing, NOT the main current flow. This cell is a left-handed setup. I'll use 4 right and 4 left to minimize the length of the high current wiring.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    The full set... (note the 5 temporary "straps")

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    Made up some permanent straps (Jack is out of them) to replace the temporary ones. Made from scraps of 0.065" copper electrical buss strap.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    Playing the initial balancing game.....

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    Jack,

    How many amps is that pulling?? I have a H7 halogen stuck on mine pulling some 4amps. 2 amps at 3.3volts.

    Chan

     
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  14. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    That's 0.4 ohms..or ~15 amps on a 6 volt "battery". (~7.5A on the 3 volt parallel cells)

    The load I use on the whole 48V pack is ~ 2.5 ohms or ~19 amps.
     
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  15. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    Nice. What I did was put 32 cells in parallel and put 5 H7 halogen (about 10 amps) in parallel to the pack and am letting the cells discharge to about 3.0V. It has taken some 4 days but it is almost there. I wish I could draw more amps to speed this up but those are the only discharge devices I could find. I have 4 KWH that I let sit this way for a week and now they all charge and discharge together very well on the 2 cell buddy system. I plan to put my 8KWh in a 4 cell buddy system. That should really help to reduce the balance issues.

    Thanks,

    Chan
     
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  16. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    That's what I should have done, but I already had a well balanced 2KWH string...it took 4 days anyway.....with a little luck it will be back in the car this weekend, or at least given a full bench cycle.
     
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  17. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    Although you are right. It is a game we are playing... hahaha..:D

    Balancing these cells seems to be an art form. But just wondering where did you get those rivet bults. I still have not mount my box yet and really want to use your method. Also where did you get those nice anderson plugs for your pack?
     
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  18. atfsi

    atfsi New Member

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    I get virtually everything on EBay.............
     
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  19. dan2l

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hi Atfsi,
    I have really appreciated your thread with all the technical details. I am planing to install into my 2010 soon. Jack said the kit will be sent Monday.

    Have not heard from you for a while. How is your project going? Did you get the buddy cells up and running. Does it work better? Are you using 2 balancers or all 4? I think Jack is planning to run this in all new kits so It is important for us to know the positive and negative impact of this change.

    I assume the pack is easier to balance. Howerver I expect that a weak cell could be hidden. How would you know if you have a weak cell buddied with a stronger cell? Or do you beleive that the buddying prevents having weak cells?

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  20. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    Dan2l,

    From what I have seen in my buddy cell set, the weak cell will still show it self. You still need to be alert to the low voltage alarm. It just doesn't bring down the entire string as fast. I found 2 more weak cells in my string but was able to turn off the system before the entire string was stressed also. The good cell in the system can keep the system running but not for very long. What I have done this morning is to put two balancers to each buddy cell and see if that will help to balance the string faster. I have enough balancers right now.
     
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