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Driving the Prius 2010 on a German Autobahn...

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by pakitt, Nov 28, 2009.

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  1. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    I have been driving from Munich to Offenburg yesterday, via Stuttgart. All in all 370km/230mi (90% highway) in about 4,5hrs, avg. speed 80-85km/h-(50-52mph) as reported by the computer (I don't remember the exact value, sorry).

    The traffic was really thick (Friday afternoon...) and because of the expansion of the Autobahn A8 from 2 to 3 lanes (yes, you read correctly, 3, not 6 or 7 - we are not there yet, but we are doing our best to copy the US, and filling those lanes with SUV like vehicles ;) ). The whole of the A8 is hilly with steep declines (up to 6%) and inclines. There are simply no tunnels and it's all up and down...not many flat sections...

    About 1hr of the whole driving time, was spent in stop&go traffic jams, mainly due to roadworks and heavy traffic. The rest of the time I was driving as fast as I could: after all I live in Germany, let's have fun sometimes ;) and more over I wanted to see how the Prius was doing at high speeds.

    When no speed limit was given (typically there is a 120km/h-75mph limit over a good third of the way and 80km/h-50mph one in all roadwork sections), I was going anything slower than 150km/h-93mph and as fast as 190km/h-118mph.
    The overall stability was good but not excellent - I am driving now with winter tires (195/55 R16), instead of the 215/45 R17 - so this is certainly one limiting factor. I have tried driving 190km/h already once with the 215 summer tires and the stability is excellent.

    Acceleration is OK but not that exciting - but mainly I was chased from 2.0+L BMWs/Mercedes and the such with 150+HP at least. I was never chased by a Golf or other mid-sized car. Surely the Prius is not a Ferrari, but you need to push it to get juice out of it (at least at these speeds). Often you press the gas and "nothing" happens. The eCVT likely doesn't help, but I cannot imagine shifting gears at these speeds, it doesn't make any sense - you really need HP and torque (if any left....).

    The engine gets quite noisy and the HSI is no indication of what are the RPMs of the ICE and if you are melting it down ;) The HSI bar might not be in the red PWR zone, you are doing 180km/h-111mph going uphill and the engine is roaring, but you have no clue whether you are in the red rpm zone.....
    Comically enough, I never really had to floor the accelerator, but honestly I was afraid of having the ICE jump out of the car...

    I used power mode all the time, not because the car goes any faster, but simply because on German highway, people do drive fast - no only in terms of overall speed, but also in terms of reaction times. When there is a chance to go faster, they will do it. No grannies here! So you need to accelerate fast, and PWR Mode gives you better reaction to the foot. After arriving in Offenburg I had to keep the PWR mode on as my foot got so used to it, that normal mode felt like ECO!!!

    What I noticed is that the battery charges continuously - the ICE is running so much and at max power that it can generate traction power, power for the generator and power for the electric motor. The batter was charging while the motor was driving the wheels at the same time. This has been the only time that I have ever seen the battery of my Prius fully charged, even if for just a short period of time. Most of the time it was 70%-80% full.
    Having a full battery was really helpful when stuck in a traffic jam or at lower speeds as I could coast in electric mode most of the time.

    So now the main question is - what was the average fuel consumption, including 25km/15mi in town before leaving Munich????
    10L/100km-23MPG? No. 8L/100km-29MPG? No. It was just 6L/100km-39MPG. I am honestly impressed. :jaw:
    This also means that if I drive it more slowly (say 140km/h-87mph), I would probably get 5L/100km-47MPG. And that for a german autobahn *is* impressive. I would never get that on the Polo diesel I got before.

    I have also tested today going 150km/h-93mph more or less constantly, and you do get 7L/100km-34mpg average.

    A good reason for driving slower though, is to reduce the stress on the suspensions and overall on the drive train. German highway are indeed flat and quite good taken care of, but any tiny bump at these speeds is truly heavy on the suspensions. The last thing I want is to change something in 4-5 years time due to fast driving. I wonder if I have not already compromised some mechanical part (I am already imagining cracks and mini-fissures crawling up metal parts in the suspensions.... my poor Prius!)

    I will drive back this Sunday I will post my findings on this thread.

    So, overall good, not a Ferrari and certainly not an "easy/comfortable" german highway car. On more relaxed highway trips though (140km/h max), it is certainly a good comfort car with (likely) excellent fuel consumption especially if helped by some traffic jams... ;)
     
    #1 pakitt, Nov 28, 2009
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  2. marcinpisz

    marcinpisz New Member

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    That is a very interesting experience. First of all from what it sounds hundred and 93 km an hour seems to be the speed limit. I'm not talking about the speed limit for the Audobon itself, but what the Toyota Prius can do in a real-world situation. To be absolutely honest, I did not think the car was able to go any faster than 160 km an hour. Second of all, I would have figured that a diesel Polo would be able to get better fuel economy on the highway and especially the Audobon. At such high speeds, the diesel engine working flat-out would probably provide the best fuel economy. Too bad you still don't have the old car, so you can compare fuel economy on a similar road and a similar speed. Diesels tend to be very efficient outside of urban areas. I'm not sure if this is correct, but they are particularly efficient at a very high load. Going that fast puts a lot of load on the engine. Was your Polo a diesel or a turbodiesel. I heard turbodiesel's are a lot more efficient than diesels.
     
    #2 marcinpisz, Nov 28, 2009
  3. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    The Polo was a turbodiesel, 1.4L with 75HP and weighing 200kg less.
    Diesel are *extremely* efficient in constant speed, 90-100km/h driving. You start to go fast and consumption goes up.
    Although I drove the same road with the Polo I don't remember the average fuel consumption I have achieved. If it were the same, it would be a true accomplishment for Toyota.
    But I do have written down the instantaneous fuel consumption of the Polo at different speeds on flat or nearly flat highway (as precise as I could be - there are not so many flat roads around where I live):
    80km/h 3,9L/100km
    100km/h 4,9L/100km
    120km/h 6,2L/100km
    150km/h 7L/100km
    170km/h 8L/100km

    Essentially the Prius consumes the same at the same speeds, from what I manage to see. Considering the 18% extra weight, the 81% more HP, the 23% more torque and the 26% bigger engine, while accelerating from 0 to 100km/h in -24% time (10,4 vs 13,6) and producing -24% less CO2, nothing to complain about here... ;)
     
    #3 pakitt, Nov 28, 2009
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  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    wow... that is sick. The old Gen 2 Prius did 5.1L/100km at a steady 70mph (~111km/h). I would've guess 8L/100km with that kind of driving. It is very impressive.

    I bumped the pressures in my winter tyres up to 42/40 corrected at 20°C. I dropped my friends off at the airport yesterday. OAT was about 0°C. At 110km/h, the instant FE bar was below 5L/100km. Probably around 4 if I had to guess (I think each bar is 0.5L/100km. That's up from 5L/100km when I ran lower pressures (37/35 corrected at 20°C)
     
    #4 Tideland Prius, Nov 28, 2009
  5. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    No need to worry about redlines and engine melt downs, the Prius engine is rev limited 1000rpm lower than the same engine (although otto cycle) used in the Corolla. It also produces a much lower peak power output.

    Great read Pakitt, thanks.
     
    #5 patsparks, Nov 28, 2009
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    A major reason for this efficiency is the cooled, exhaust recirculation system:
    [​IMG]
    The four exhaust pipes combine and a fifth pipe take part of the exhaust and feeds it into the intake manifold. At high power settings, this reduces the exhaust temperature to protect the catalytic converter. Without it, the earlier 1.5L Prius had to enrich the mixture and this impacted high-speed mileage.
    If you get a chance, it is difficult for me to map out speeds above 80 mph, 130 km/h. The local speed limit is 75 mph and though 80 mph keeps up with traffic, it is a little anxious. This is what I've got so far, indicated mileage:
    [​IMG]

    The typical protocol is to make two runs in opposite directions of at least 10 miles / 16 km to even out altitude and wind effects. Not perfect, it is good enough. Just get to the target speed, set the cruise control, and reset the tripmeter. After 16 km or more, record the mileage, find an exit to turn around and do the second run. Average the mileage and we will have another data point. Adding the outside temperature completes the picture.

    In reality, I'm happy for any high speed data, even if just a single, cross-country run. Just share the temperature, wind conditions and altitude changes, if known, along with the three trip meter values. A collection of data points tends to center about the actual value.

    Thanks,
    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Nov 29, 2009
  7. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    So today I drove back, not doing the same road as I was leaving from Freiburg and the route via Memmingen/Ravensburg was shorter and more scenic. 345km/214mi in total, 202km/125mi of which highway. I drove mostly not any faster 140km/h-87mph apart a few cases in which I drove up to 180km/h-112mph for less than 1 min.

    The road from Freiburg till the first stretch of highway is uphill, the rest is up&down, up&down, repeat...

    Going uphill, the consumption was 7L/100km-34mpg, the rest was around 5L/100km-47mpg or less. Hence the average of 5.2/100km-45mpg (see image attached).

    A few short stretches of road were in town/villages (no more than 50km/h-31mph) and the rest on country side roads (between 70km/h-44mph to 100km/h-62mph). Lots of braking (not to a stop) and speeding up again. Lots.

    The overall avg speed is 90km/h-56mph, so I wasn't really driving like a granny.

    Is 5.2L/100km-45mpg good enough? ;)


    FYI - elevations:
    Freiburg 278m - starting point
    Titisee 845m
    Neustadt 849m
    Ravensburg 450m
    Memmingen 601m
    München 519m - end

    As you see...up&down&up&down. To get a flat stretch of road around here....you need to drive to Holland!! ;) No wonder I could not do 4L/100km-59mpg!!!!

    PS: I noticed a difference between PWR and normal mode, apart from the accelerator mapping. When releasing the accelerator in PWR mode, the engine tends to remain engaged although not consuming any fuel. If I pressed the PWR mode to disable it, I could clearly notice the ICE disengaging. Why does the ICE remain "on", though not been fed gas, when releasing the gas (gliding) - the speed at which this happens is around 100km/h-62mph.
    PS2: just to clarify - all posted speeds in my posts, are allowed by the law. Unless otherwise noted, on german highways you are allowed to drive as fast as you can, as long as you keep enough distance between you and the car that precedes you. Country roads have a speed limit of 100km/h and in town, 50km/h. All these speeds are limited according to road type, tunnels, etc.
     

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    #7 pakitt, Nov 29, 2009
  8. chrisj428

    chrisj428 Active Member

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    Pakitt --

    That's outstanding!

    The last time I drove on the Autobahn from Wolfsburg to Munich, I was in a SWB Phaeton W12. My personal "speed limit" was about 230 km/h (comfort zone was 180-200).

    The fuel economy was nowhere near that. :car:
     
    #8 chrisj428, Dec 1, 2009
  9. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    very nice, just drove Prius again yesterday... European Prius is really nice, quite sporty too.... highways are never hybrids forte, but city... I trashed prius around town, faster than I drive my GS350AWD, got 5.9l average (i was at WOT whenever i could).... my GS350 AWD average has been between 17l-20l.

    On the highway I get 10l/100km if I drive 160kmh.... but I do that 2x per year ;-).

    gen 3 Prius is quite fast at speeds under 100-120kmh, a lot faster than gen 2... a lot.
     
    #9 spwolf, Dec 3, 2009
  10. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Is there an official spec on minimum following distance there?
    How do they define "adequate"? Hopefully at least 4 seconds
    worth...
    .
    _H*
     
    #10 hobbit, Apr 4, 2010
  11. Ogo

    Ogo Prius Owner since 2008

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    Usually minimum following distance in EU is defined as 1 second trip time. This is minimum legal. Recommended is at least twice of that, so at least the distance car makes in two seconds.

    For driving 130 km/h that would be around 36 meters minimal, at least 72 meters for optimal. Same goes for higher speeds. For example for 180 km/h, minimal legal would be 50 meters, optimal at least 100 meters.

    Usually simple rule is being used by taking the speed in km/h, divide it by 10 and then multiply by 3. For example: 130 km/h divided by 10 goes to 13 and then multiplied by 3 goes to 36 meters minimal distance. For 180 km/h divided by 10 goes to 18 and then multiplied by 3 goes to 54 meters minimum safety distance. This rule is good enough for daily use. You just need radar in your car to measure the distance to the next car. :)

    And I agree, at higher speeds those minimum following distances are way too low. As the braking distances go disproportionally high with higher speeds.
     
    #11 Ogo, Apr 4, 2010
  12. jburns

    jburns Senior Senior Member

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    I lived in Worms for 2 years when I was in the US Army. Driving in Europe is an awesome experience. Just being able to put the pedal down on the Autobahn without worrying about police is an amazing experience for an American driver. Nothing like taking off on a vacation at 200km/h. :rockon:
     
    #12 jburns, Apr 4, 2010
  13. vagabund

    vagabund New Member

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    A useful rule taught in some EU countries refers to the square rule, i.e. at a speed of 50 kmh, safety distance would be 25 m. (5x5=25). Squaring 90 kmh will give you 81 m. and so on (at 100 kmh allow at least 100m). In wet roads, this distance should be double, and with icy conditions no less than triple.
     
    #13 vagabund, Apr 7, 2010
  14. vagabund

    vagabund New Member

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    Many drivers in Norway, Sweden and Denmark get pretty excited with the prospect of crossing Germany by road for the sake of having a "taste" of speed. Any excuse is good to head south to test their cars. Now the Prius appears to make this just as exciting for much less money spent in fuel. Overall I see my fellow Prius owners less inclined to speed regularly -besides, the car is noisier at high speeds than modern, estate turbodiesels such as Mercedes, Volvo, BMW, Audi or the Avensis.

    For those of you who may be interested in the debate about speed limits in German motorways (especially about the safety benefit of introducing speed limits): ETSC report - German Autobahn: The Speed Limit Debate
    Balanced report with plenty of factual support.
     
    #14 vagabund, Apr 7, 2010
  15. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    118? I thought the car was electrically governed to top out at 106 mph?
     
    #15 Skoorbmax, Apr 12, 2010
  16. theloop82

    theloop82 Member

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    I may or may not have a photo on my cell phone that completley disproves that.

    All i can say is that the MkIII Prius is no slug in the triple digits.

    *Theloop82 in no way endorses or admits to exceeding the speed limit. But if you are going to do it, make sure its on a long, desolate highway in northeastern Washington, where you havent seen another car for a half hour.
     
    #16 theloop82, Apr 12, 2010
  17. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    I don't think the OP is lying. I don't know where I gained this knowledge, though. I really thought it was maxed at 106. Here it says 112:
    2010 Toyota Prius: First Drive - 2010 Toyota Prius - Jalopnik

    I wonder what it is down a hill :) Its power to weight is getting seriously stressed at 112, though. I would imagine it would be drag-limited to somewhere in the teens on flat, just going on hits HP, although it is pretty aerodynamic.
     
    #17 Skoorbmax, Apr 12, 2010
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    106mph is the Gen 2. The Gen 3 has been upped to 112mph (I thought it was 113mph.. close enough)
     
    #18 Tideland Prius, Apr 13, 2010
  19. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    Today I did 193km/h - that's 120mph. But... that is what the speedometer is telling and not the real actual speed. With the use of a friend's GPS I have found that you need to drive 66km/h to get 60km/h real (10% margin; that is with 17" wheels). If the error is constant, above a certain speed that is, then 193-10%=175km/h. Which means that if the declared speed limit is 180km/h, you need to see 198 displayed to really be at 180km/h.
    I had to brake today when I saw 193, and the Prius wasn't finished quite yet - I know I could have gone up a tad more. So 198km/h might well be the max speed you can see on the speedometer. And I am pretty sure a 200km/h cannot be physically be displayed in the current dashboard anyways (as far as I can see, there is no "2" available...)
     
    #19 pakitt, Apr 17, 2010
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    lol nice. Well 112mph is 180km/h so that sounds about right. How stable was it?
     
    #20 Tideland Prius, Apr 17, 2010
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