TDI clean burning diesel

The new TDI's get lower mpg than the old ones.

 

See new Edmunds.com study for mpg. Emissions aren't even close.

Or are you saying the new TDI's do better than old TDI's? I assume since you came to a prius site, you meant to compare to Prius...

 

Hi Boosted...,

As people have indicated they aren't. And the main reason is to reduce NOx, the peak combustion temp has to be reduced, and this reduces engine efficiency.

The urea injection turbo-diesels (not the VW TDI but other luxury brands) might be able tom improve mileage. This is done by improved fuel spray patterns, with higher fuel injection pressures.

 

i feel the name "clean" is not correct

its more like "cleaner" then before but never "clean"

diesels are dirty..

also the new commen rail injected turbo diesels these "clean" diesels are.
not clean, just cleaner.
and i am not talking about co2 but real stuff like NOx

 

Numb.

 

The slightly higher tailpipe emissions of the current generation of T2B5 clean diesel vehicles (mainly in the form of NOx) are at least partially, if not mostly, offset by the much lower evaporative hydrocarbon (HC) emissions in the fuel supply chain (diesel fuel is far less volatile than gasoline).

HCs are the most problematic pollutants in areas of the U.S. where unacceptably high ambient levels of ozone ("smog") occur (i.e., metropolitan areas in non-attainment with the ozone NAAQS (National Ambient Air Quality Standard)), not NOx.

 

Depends on what it's compared to. Compared against the gasoline versions of the same vehicle (VW Jetta)...


http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2009/volkswagen_pc_a0070279_2d0_u2_diesel.pdf (ULEV II Jetta TDI)

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2009/audi_pc_a0300200_2d0_u2.pdf (ULEV II Jetta 2.0T)

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2009/audi_pc_a0300203_2d0_pz.pdf (PZEV II Jetta 2.0T)

(Grams/mile @ UL)​

Emission.................VW Jetta TDI............Jetta 2.0L U2..........Jetta 2.0L PZ

NMHC/NMOG.............0.014........................0.027.........................0.004
CO...........................0.5...........................0.2.............................0.5
CO @ 20*F................----...........................2.9............................2.4
NOx..........................0.04.........................0.03...........................0.02
Highway NOx..............0.03...........................0.01...........................0.01
PM...........................0.001..........................----..........................----
US06 HC+NOx............0.13...........................0.03..........................0.01
US06 CO..................0.02............................4.4............................1.0
SC03 HC+NOx............0.12...........................0.04..........................0.01
SC03 CO..................0.02............................1.5............................0.7
VEH. EVAP..............-----...........................0.0066.......................0.0051

(not including evaporative emissions in the fuel supply chain)


Again, lower NOx emissions do not necessarily offset the higher HC (NMOG/NMHC) emissions, in my opinion.

 

The OP should go to Green Vehicle Guide | US EPA, go to Look Up Greenest Vehicles, check both checkboxes, select 2009 and California. Then sort by air pollution score and see where the VW TDIs fall and how many cars receive better air pollution scores.

The scores are based max emissions allowed per mile for a given value. See http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/detailedchart.pdf. Some example emission amounts were listed earlier.

Based on the "clean diesel" greenwashing, a TON of gasoline powered vehicles ought to receive some sort of "clean" label as well.

 

So I guess my wifes 2008 jetta tdi that gets 48 mpg stock is a lie. Near 70mpg with the ecm reprogrammed as well.

Also several of my friends that have them too. Are they all lying?

Hell I dont even have to burn diesel in her car. I can burn WVO and be completely carbon neutral if I want to.

 

diesels are very clean they leave less imprint then civics and prius'. Have you seen pictures of nickel mines and he factories in third world countries used to create your batteries? The people are working for pennies and hour and they pollute unbelievably.

 

Actually efusco I agree he did use old photo's. But the truth is the nickel is mined in canada then shipped to china or japan to be made to the batteries then shipped back here. Sounds really environmentally responsible anyway.

But all bickering aside it doesnt matter. The Prius probably wont be sold in the US for much longer due to patent violations


"Toyota Faces Patent-Violation Claims That Could Ban Import of Its Hybrids Into U.S." Green Car Advisor

 

The motive for patent lawsuit is money. Once negotiation is done and money changed hands, problem solved.

 

Quad, that mileage is truely impressive.
The EPA rating for the Jette TDI is 42mpg. 15% above the EPA rating is a great job.
The EPA rating for the TDI's howver is less than the EPA rating for the Prius. So if your wife can beat the EPA rating driving the TDI, I suspect she could beat the EPA rating of a Prius as well (or any other car).

As for my feelings about the TDI technology, as stated by someone earlier, I applaud the improvement in various technologies to improve the fuel efficiency. Would be nice to see a combining of all the improvements in various models to produce an even better fuel efficient car.

Just imagine the efficiency in a Jette TDI that used electrical assist and regenerative braking

 

As everyone has pointed out, How do I feel about Clean Burning Diesel? Compared to what?

Compared to Hybrids the emmisions are not as clean, and you they don't match the MPG of The Prius.

Compared to a standard ICE, they offer better MPG and comparable emmisions.

Oddly, the few people (sample size is small) I've met that own diesel trucks or autos LOVE them. There enthusiasm and support of diesel reminds me of....well, Prius Owners really...

I don't know, depends on what your personal feelings and goals are with auto ownership. If you want improved MPG and don't want the Hybrid complications or different machine feel...than maybe the new Clean TDI's are worth a look. If emmisions are important to you, then Hybrid is your best choice.

For me, locally Diesel is actually pretty expensive and hard to find. But if I lived in the UK I think I'd at least consider the new diesel technology.

 

Old News:
Patent suit not good for US Prius imports
100 Million Dollar Patent Troll shakedown?
Toyota Prius importation under threat due to U.S. patent trade case?

'Search' finds numerous older threads about previous patent disputes. Prius imports continue.