Anyone else have a PHEV system from Jungle Motors?

andrasachs · Nov 19, 2009

Andrew,

I have driven my prius for over 1 1/2 years...and have not experienced any problems at all...in fact... I LOVED IT... The plug in Supply kit worked great and I almost never had to fill up my tank...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...but if the car really had issues as per your email...I would not be investing my retirement into plug in hybrids. I am a saavy and experienced business woman...and I give kudos to Plug In Supply (now Plug In Coversions) and their ability to do what none of the car manufacturers seem to be doing... We are using Lithium Phosphate Batteries...and they have an approx lifetime of 10 years... I love the kits...and I challenge anyone who like yourself that seems to think it has a downside...

If you can make a better kit...so be it...DO IT and put your money where your mouth is...

I LOVE MY KIT...and am excited about modifying the kits for Ford Escape, Toyota Camry, and Toyota ...

We can do what the BIG GUYS CANNOT and are PROUD OF IT...

linuxpenguin said: ↑

Hi Nirmala,

I believe the PHEV conversion from Jungle Motors is the CalCars style conversion from Plugin Supply. I have had experience with CalCars style systems yes. Basically it uses contactors to parallel the auxiliary battery pack (240v pack that sits over the rear tire-well) with the OEM battery pack allowing massive energy transfer (upwards of 130 amps for brief pulses) between the two. There is some discussion as to whether or not this damages the batteries though I can tell you for sure it isn't good for them. I definitely noticed degraded performance from my OEM battery after removing that system though I can't say definitively that that was the culprit.

Lead acid batteries tend to last only a couple months in a PHEV environment. The best I saw was about 4-6 months before their performance was seriously degraded (capacity reduced to about 5 miles...). With the price of lead on the rise--longevity is something you may want to consider, especially if you don't want to be replacing your batteries often. I don't believe the batteries come with any warranty, though I could be wrong about that.

The EV mode that that system uses is something called Forced Stealth mode--which for those of you who have already heard my rants--I'll spare you the long version and give you the synopsis. Basically it forces the car into thinking something terrible has happened to the engine and the car completely disables the engine until you turn the car off and on again. This clears all emissions related data your vehicle has stored as well as any trouble codes (for dealers) and engine learned values (eg: data that your engine has learned about fuel injection to give you a smoother ride). It also means that if you really need acceleration (say to get out of the way of a car) you're stuck with the limited electric power of the vehicle. In essence, it's a safety hazard in more than one way--and there have been several tests done by reputable laboratories that suggest the forced stealth approach may cause the motors to over-rev resulting in long-term damage.

Now, you could just drive the car normally without using this forced stealth mode and still get good mileage. Toyota made the car with a low speed EV mode that allows you to go up to 34 MPH without any of the problems mentioned above. I believe it's possible to specify which version of EV mode you want when purchasing it--I would suggest the OEM Toyota mode.

In summary:

Pros:
Cheap overall system (depending on longevity of your batteries). Replacement batteries cost roughly in the $500-$700 range depending on where (and when) you buy them.

Automatic (assuming you aren't using forced stealth)--requiring little to no driver interaction besides plugging it in. When not in EV mode the vehicle still uses more battery energy than it otherwise would.

Access to spare tire (assuming you get the latest version with mechanical lifts).

High energy transfer (110+ amp transfer compared to other systems such as the Enginer system which can only transfer about 12 amps--though again, this comes at the cost of degrading your OEM battery).

Cons:
Lead acid batteries need to be replaced

Possible (likely) reduction in OEM battery life due to high current transfers

Poor crash safety (the box is securely fastened, but it's 350 pounds of lead in a steel box that probably isn't quite strong enough).

Extra Weight (batteries weigh upwards of 350 pounds...you'll need to upgrade your rear suspension and make sure you get your tires rotated when you should).

Poor quality charger (I'm not sure what chargers are being used these days, but that conversion has a history of poorly manufactured chargers)

---

Additional notes:
If you do buy this system, be careful not to let the batteries get too out of sync. Since the system does not come with a BMS (battery management system to keep the batteries roughly charged the same) the batteries can get slightly out of balance with each other over time which can significantly reduce the lifespan of them (EG: one or two batteries get pulled down a lot further than the others to the point where I observed the polarity of the battery terminals actually switched...that was not a pretty day). Some chargers will pulse-charge at the end to attempt to balance lead acid batteries but others (namely the cheaper chargers) may not.

Safety tips:
The CalCars style system is unique in the sense that if it fails (that is, fails with the contactors in the on position) it's possible that the auxiliary battery will overcharge the main Prius battery potentially resulting in a disaster. You may wish to purchase a ScanGauge or similar tool to monitor the charge percentage of the Prius battery regularly to avoid such problems.

Hope that helps,
Andrew
Click to expand...

andrasachs · Nov 19, 2009

Excuse my last email and quote. oops.....I mistyped...meant to say...Plug In Solutions Inc. pluginsolutions.com

We have some very exciting new kits coming out...
Ford Escape, Camry, Highlander, Ford Fusion....etc...

I welcome all comments on our kits... so far they have all been good...

Andra

linuxpenguin said: ↑

Ah, I just re-read your post and see now that you bought a car with the lead acid PHEV system already installed--well hopefully my comments will help you understand better how your system works =).

Andrew
Click to expand...

Nirmalanow · Nov 19, 2009

withdrawn

scottsim · Mar 17, 2010

Latest/Greatest

I have the 10KWh (actually possibly closer to 12KWh) conversion from 3prongpower, a PIS outlet.

So far, so good...some minor glitches but learning to optimize the systems' output is really what Prius driving is all about.

This should get me through, till there are practical EV's on the market.

More here: www.smilingdogsranch.com/priusblog

Scott

Tekmann · Mar 21, 2010

linuxpenguin said: ↑

Even if you have no air circulation at all for your batteries, there is no way to enforce a standardized temperature throughout all the batteries.

This means the colder cells will retain a lower state of charge and become out of sync with the rest. The result (over time) is that the cells toward the middle of the pack become significantly weaker because the pack continues to deplete until the cells on the outside (with the higher capacity) are empty.

This can cause the weaker batteries to actually start leaking acid even though they are technically sealed. I even saw one instance where the polarity of the battery terminals switched because it got so over-discharged. It generally isn't pretty.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen the air intake & exhaust of the battery compartment, but it seems wiser (now that the problem is identified..lol) to have the air go throught a baffle plate of some sort from the bottom of the box distributing the air evenily to then be exhausted at the top..???

Soon 2 Own 2008 model...
Tekmann

linuxpenguin · Mar 21, 2010

Tekmann said: ↑

I haven't seen the air intake & exhaust of the battery compartment, but it seems wiser (now that the problem is identified..lol) to have the air go throught a baffle plate of some sort from the bottom of the box distributing the air evenily to then be exhausted at the top..???

Soon 2 Own 2008 model...
Tekmann
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but the overarching issue is still the same--you would need a uniformal heating/cooling system that was able to maintain the same temperatures throughout the batteries. In the summer this is relatively do-able, but in the winter it's near impossible due to the manner in which heat rises (if you have a charger mounted below the deck) and how the chassis cools the batteries...

Andrew

imwoody36 · May 14, 2010

removed

scottsim · May 25, 2010

Plug-In-Solutions (Supply) 10KWh review

I have been driving this system in my 2009 Prius for about five months now and can report on it a bit. Though data-wise, it may not satisfy the number crunchers amoung you. I feel that I have a pretty fair grasp on its performance.

The large pack added over 300lbs over the rear wheels, and even with the suspension upgrade the Prius is noticeably less nimble that before the installation...as if there were two large people in the rear seat. More pronounced on cornering, it really does not bother me most of the time.

I was seeing a 44mpg average from my Prius before the BIG pack was installed. Now, just running in mixed mode, where the ICE and the electric motor are both constantly running I am averaging closer to 65mpg. On the hilly terrain around here, I can run in this mode for around 50mi before seeing "blue bars", indicating that the large pack is either becoming empty or, needs a rest. I say this because, if the car sits still for an interval (>1/2hr) the green bars will return.

This partial discharge (confirmed by Kill-Watt readings) is a bit tiresome, but can also be dealt with by switching the Pack rocker switch off and allowing the Pack to recover. I do this when climbing hills as well as the Pack will depleat quickly when challenged by long or steep climbs.

Pure EV mode (ICE-kill switch engaged) is something I use on the flats and when I dont need to go over 52mph...It would be optimum for city streets and city traffic. I use it selectively on my commute for about 8-10mi each way. For my commute as mentioned previously I am averaging 65-85mpg...The gas-pump readings are fairly consistent with the consumption gauge, maybe 5% lower. On a flat-course with a 45mph average speed, I can go maybe 20miles before needing to either give the pack a rest or recharge.

Just like the learning-curve for getting the most out of your Prius, getting the most out of a PHEV conversion takes some learning before becoming natural.

I have a confirmed reservation for a Nissan Leaf, but most likely will wait till I see a pure EV with > 200mi range.

More on my blogsite: www.smilingdogsranch.com/priusblog

Scott

Anyone else have a PHEV system from Jungle Motors?

andrasachs New Member

andrasachs New Member

Nirmalanow New Member

scottsim New Member

Tekmann New Member

linuxpenguin Active Member

imwoody36 the prius parts guy

scottsim New Member

About PriusChat

Quick Navigation

Like us on Facebook

Buy us a beer!

Useful Searches

Anyone else have a PHEV system from Jungle Motors?

andrasachs New Member

andrasachs New Member

Nirmalanow New Member

scottsim New Member

Tekmann New Member

linuxpenguin Active Member

imwoody36 the prius parts guy

scottsim New Member