Prius 2010 Oil Change Interval Revised? Not yet... (closed)

Prude

 

202 posts - 16,000 views.

Can you believe the controversy?
Did you ever think the topic would catch fire as this?

You're a good guy - taking the heat that some are tossing. You should get $3 from every member that Thanked you. Unless you're wrong of course....

 

Good grief, at this rate there will be blood drawn before we get the "official" word.

 

Also, I would think Toyota rather than SET would have final say over warranty issues--would SET honor a warranty problem caused by an extended OCI authorized by SET, but not officially approved by Toyota?

Sigh. The only thing that would make me happier than to have this issue resolved (at the 10K interval) would be for the USA to finally adopt the metric system. (Well, the only technical thing, anyway )

 

No kidding

 

As of today the 17th of September, Toyota customer service and dealers still claim this is not accurate. Will be interesting to see if the change really happens on the 2010 models as described.

 

And the Prius OCI mystery continues on...

Tune in tomorrow for Days of our Lives.... :ranger:

But - odd that Doug's crew has not invalidated this (yet). If it was absolutely unfounded and a rumor, one would assume they would have squashed it promptly. That said - my bet 90% YES; announcement before month end.

 

Fear not, folks - this soap opera isn't just Toyota -- it's happening all over the US with many dealers and quick lubes. The good news is that we don't have to get wrapped up in the soap opera.

-Dealers are not owned or controlled by Toyota US or Toyota Japan - they are independent companies and/or franchises. This means, unfortunately, they will not act as a unified mass, but as the scrambled mass they are.

-There is no single 'warranty' for the US. There's a warranty trail for each part in the car. Some come from Toyota, others come from the part manufacturer. Oil is warranted by the oil manufacturer, for example, not by the Toyota dealer, Toyota USA or Toyota Japan.

- For oil related warranty... Oil's performance specification is required for warranty. The quality level must be ILSAC GF-4, for example, if that is the specification required for that engine. Oil VISCOSITY is NOT REQUIRED - it's 'recommended'. Oil change interval is NOT REQUIRED, it is 'recommended'. No warranty claim can be denied unless the oil selected directly caused the failure. In addition, the failure must be proven before any warranty claim can be denied.

[edit] If any dealer or shop suggests that something you're doing will 'void your warranty' have them put it in writing. 99% of the time they won't - but that won't stop them from trying to talk you into something.

The warranty comments apply to factory warranties. If one purchases an extended warranty or service contract with an outside company, that's a private agreement and the insurance company can make you change your oil every three days and rotate your tires every Wednesday if they want - and they can deny coverage if you don't comply. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act provides consumers protection with manufacturer warranties but not for private agreements. [/edit]

- Auto dealers don't make as much money on car sales - they make more profit on parts and service. They have a vested interested in getting the customer into the shop as often as they can. They are happy with themselves - and make more money - if they can get you into the shop every 2000 miles rather than 10,000 miles.

An example from the field...I'm in oil sales and work with dealers and quick lube operators. Even in the US where the '3000 mile oil change interval religion' is deeply ingrained, I'm routinely told by lube operators that their goal is to get folks in for 2300-2700 mile intervals. ('Told' is too gentle - they brag!) This is in spite of the up to 2 years or 24,000 mile change interval for some Benz cars, the long-running 1 year or 10,000 mile interval for VW/Audi, Ford's 5000 mile interval, the GM oil life monitor average of 7200 miles, and the tipical 5000 to 10,000 mile interval for many Japanese cars.

So...by definition, if you ask 10 dealers what the 'required' oil change interval is, you're likely to get at least 12 answers and most will be sooner than the factory change interval.

Unfortunately, auto mechanics are probably the worst folks to ask for oil advice. The information required for the ASE certification is directed toward identifying and replacing broken parts - not determining WHY they failed. And with the push by dealers to sell more products, techs don't learn how to keep things from breaking or how to make things last longer... [edit] Sorry techs - nothing personal. Just analyzing certification and marketing pressure. Not saying you haven't studied oil specs or requirements outside the shop.[/edit]

Many people think that more frequent oil changes are 'cheap insurance' - but changing oil too frequently causes more wear than leaving the oil in for a normal interval. The new oil cleans then re-develops the anti-wear coating on internal parts over the first 1500-2000 miles of a drain interval and wear rates increase right after an oil change.

The engineers at the auto company determine the minimum oil quality required for the engine - it's one of the assumptions made when the engine is designed. The oil industry operates from a 'minimum standard' mentality - there is zero financial incentive to make products any better than they have to be made to meet the minimum performance specification. With this as background -- if Toyota says that GF-4 0W-20 is capable of running 10,000 miles or 1 year (whichever comes first) for normal service, than ANY 0W-20 on the shelf that carries GF-4 on the label meets the warranty requirement for that engine.

Some products available on the market ARE designed to run longer, but that's because they are built from the start to be long drain interval products. (M1 EP VS. standard M1, for example, or AMSOIL) Synthetic won't necessarily run longer than petroleum, for example, just because it uses a synthetic base oil. Look for the warranty from the oil company for more details.

All this being said, pay attention to the normal service interval versus the severe service interval. Most US drivers should follow severe service intervals.

I hope that helps those pushing for the 'real answer' from Toyota, and for those that want to manage their maintenance.

Andy

 

Mobil 1 European Car Formula 0W-40 is also engineered to meet the ACEA A3/B3-B4 extended oil service requirements, in addition to those of GM Europe, BMW, etc

 

I don't follow, why after saying all that would you stick with the severe OCI?

 

Another argument in favor of longer duration oil changes was explained to me years ago by my aircraft mechanic, it went something like this:

Oil changes done for equippment that does not measure the oil change duration in miles, equipment like airplanes, tractors, generators, bulldozers etc. there oil changes are measured in hours, and the instrument used to measure their running time is call a Hobbs Meter. Most equippment oil changes are done every 100 hours, thus, if this is applied to an automobile and converted to miles using the formula: Average miles per hour, times hours used, equals, total miles driven, it would go like this:
Let's say you drive primarily in town at an average speed of about 30 MPH. 30 MPH X 100 hours = 3000 miles. That's where the figure of change your oil every 3000 miles comes from, however, if you drive mainly highway miles, let's say an average of 65 MPH, following the same formula, means 65 MPH X 100 hours = 6500 mile oil changes instead of the typical 3000 mile change.

Now this old 3000 mile oil change mandate was formulated LONG before synthetic oil had come to pass, and since synthetic oil does NOT break down molecularly like conventional oil, synthetic oil will theoretically NEVER wear out(that's why there is NO time limit placed on synthetic as there is on conventional oil), it needs only to be changed when it gets dirty, NOT because it wears out. Synthetic oil can actually be used indefinately, as long as it's kept clean. Whereas conventional oil literally wears out (the molecular structure actually breaks down).

IMO, this is part of the reasoning I would think Toyota has for considering extending the OCI for the Prius!

David (aka Blind Guy)

 

The Honda civic hybrid states 10K interval even in their 2004 version. I now had a plug in hybrid and will use 25K as my interval !

 

Explain to me what a Honda civic oil change has to do with a 2010 Prius. If you want to go 25k on your pluig in the that is up to you. If it is a 2004 and you dont have the extended warranty then it is out of warranty anyway.
We're talking about the oil change interval on the 2010 Prius in this thread.

 

I'm preparing to take my new Prius to Seattle from Okla. and have just over 3000 miles and have not had first oil change. Should the oil get changed before leaving, in Seattle or after? Prefer to get in done in town b/c the dealer gives first 2 changes for free.

 

No harm in changing it early on the first change , many do that. Do it before you leave.

 

Bryan:
On a related note, the owners' manual (page 442, first bullet) says:
"When removing or fitting the wheels, tires or the tire pressure warning valve and transmitter, contact your Toyota dealer as the tire pressure warning valve and transmitter may be damaged if not handled correctly".

Does this apply to merely removing the wheel/tire assembly to perform the rotation procedure? Has anyone who has done the rotation procedure themselves had any issues? I know one should generally initialize the tire pressure warning system per the procedure (on page 435) after rotation. Is there anything else unusual we who wish to do the rotation ourselves be aware of?
Thanks in advance...
Bob

 

Wow!.... looks like a post from another thread?

 

Because most drivers don't use oil analysis, and we don't have an oil life monitor installed. What remains is observing when our driving is severe and 'coloring inside the lines' the Toyota engineers outline.