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Custom Enginer PHEV (8kWh)

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by krousdb, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    So, are they in parallel to the same leads?
     
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  2. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    Also, I'm not sure if you've noticed any of these issues. Say you're driving up a hill using EV mode(Yes, I understand that the Enginer kit is not meant to do such a task), you've drained the SoC of the traction battery down to 2 bars(Red/Purple). You've finally reached the top of the hill and begin to hold on the brake to capture regen. Does your car capture regen nicely?

    When ever I have my Enginer kit activated and I'm attempting to capture regen, it seems that the amount of energy that I could have captured is a lot lower than if I had turned off the Enginer kit.

    Are you seeing this issue?
     
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  3. plugmein2

    plugmein2 New Member

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    I haven't noticed the difference. I seem to regen nicely whether the kit is on or off.

    BTW: How is your system working? I know you had some bugs to work out.

    JOANNA
     
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  4. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    I assume that my DC/DC is just broken...

    I haven't bothered to actually measure the output yet.. I'll replace the DC/DC this weekend..
     
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  5. krousdb

    krousdb NX-74205

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    9/01/09 Evening Commute

    Charge Info

    Begin Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 51.9
    End Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 51.9

    Actual kWh used = 0
    kWh to Aux Pack = 0

    Readings
    Beginning Aux Pack Voltage = 51.9
    Beginning OEM Pack SoC = 72.0
    Miles Driven = 62.6
    End Aux pack Voltage = 48.0
    End OEM Pack Soc = 49.5

    Driving Conditions
    Sunny & Dry.
    Ambient Temp = 77F
    Winds = 10 MPH Headwind:angry:
    Windows Closed
    Fan set to level 2, no AC.

    Route
    12.6 Miles suburban at 25-50 MPH
    27.0 Miles on the Interstate, CC set to 55MPH
    23.0 Miles suburban at 35-50 MPH
    62.6 Miles total


    Results
    Trip ScanGauge MPG = 81.0
    Current Tank = 256 Miles
    Tank ScanGauge MPG = 90.8
    Tank MFD MPG = 90.6


    Analysis
    10 MPH headwind and 77F. Under these conditions I would normally get 60 MPG on the way home from work using this particular route. My first converter shut down at 106 miles (since last charge) and the second converter shut down at 112 miles. At that point, I had 82 MPG showing on the SG.

    PHEV Performance
    82/60 = 37% Improvement while under PHEV assist.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Dave, how come the Prius OEM is not showing the enginer pack bleed-in as leaves on the MFD ?
     
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  7. krousdb

    krousdb NX-74205

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    Yes, I expected to see lots of green leaves on the MFD. It may be that the power never makes it to the battery, it goes straight to the MG. When the SOC is that high, the Hybrid ECU is trying to dump power to the MG.
     
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  8. krousdb

    krousdb NX-74205

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    9/02/09 Morning Commute

    Charge Info

    Begin Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 48.0
    End Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 54.0
    Actual kWh used = 10.71
    kWh to Aux Pack = 9.28 (Also includes bumping up the OEM SoC from 49.5 to 75.0%)

    Readings
    Beginning Aux Pack Voltage = 54.0
    Beginning OEM Pack SoC = 75.0
    Miles Driven = 62.6
    End Aux pack Voltage = 51.4
    End OEM Pack Soc = 75.0

    Driving Conditions
    Dry.
    Ambient Temp = 61F
    Winds = 9 MPH Tailwind :D
    Windows Closed
    Fan set to level 2, no AC.

    Route (Full Hypermiling Route)
    23.0 Miles suburban at 25-50 MPH
    27.0 Miles in the Interstate, CC set to 55MPH
    12.6 Miles suburban at 35-50 MPH

    Results
    Trip ScanGauge MPG = 113
    Current Tank = 319 Miles
    Tank ScanGauge MPG = 94.4
    Tank MFD MPG = 94.3

    Analysis
    Same as yesterday except 5F cooler. I had problems keeping the coolant temp warm enough (157F) for the ICE to drop out automatically. This cost me a few MPG's.

    PHEV Performance
    113/72.3 = 56.3% Improvement
     
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  9. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    Do you see a lot of green leaves when the SOC is low and you turn on the Enginer system to charge up the stock battery (don't even need to be moving)? I would expect to see them then, unless the system somehow measures "leaves" at the generators.
     
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  10. krousdb

    krousdb NX-74205

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    Every evening I make a point to take the OEM pack down to about 50% so I can bump it up to 75% while charging. I would expect to see it then but I haven't really paid attention. I will look for it tonight.
     
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  11. Dan.

    Dan. MPG Centurion

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    For what it's worth, I only see green leaves when I touch the brake pedal, I haven't don't a controlled study though. I've always thought of the leaves as "regen received while pressing the brake pedal". So maybe it's showing up as "coasting regen" not "brake pedal regen"

    The alternative is that I simply don't regen enough to get the leaves ;)

    11011011
     
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  12. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    That makes sense, thanks. If the car is sitting with Ig-on and getting a ~ 2 kW bleed in from the enginer pack, a 50 w*h (= to 50*3600 w*s) leaf should appear for every 50*3600/2000, or 90 seconds charging between the MFD updates.

    If it works this way, it would be a simple test to verify the extra pack's correct operation.
     
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  13. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    Thanks for sharing krousb, very exciting results! At this point I'll admit I have no idea why this works, but its awesome that it seems to. Looking forward to seeing the 3 converter result. I think its a very good idea to pair a scan gauge with these kits so you can keep tabs on the system since the kit doesn't. In temperate weather just watching SOC is probably ok, but for very hot or very cold weather it would be a good idea to watch CCL and make sure your amps in is always less than this.

    Incidentally, I would assume for those with shorter commutes you should be able to run a similar setup with 4kW of battery and 2 converters and get the same mileage for half the range. IMHO the higher output of the 2 converter option makes this conversion a lot more interesting. Getting ~70-75mpg for 60+ miles is great if you need to drive that far often, but for many people spending an extra $500 to get 90-110 mpg for 30+ miles would be much more compelling. I would think the current draw from the secondary pack shouldn't be any worse for 2 converters with a 4kWh pack than one converter and a 2kWh pack.
     
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  14. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    FWIW I still think it would be nice to pair this kit with a CAN-View. The CAN-View lets you view a lot more parameters, and gives you the option of triggering relays based on CAN parameters. It would be pretty easy to wire this to your manual switch on the Enginer kit and specify safe operating ranges for various CAN parameters. That would let you automatically kick the converters off when SOC gets too high, or CCL gets too low for example. It should be flexible enough to even turn one converter off at one point, and the other off at a different point. Its a few hundred bucks more than a SG, but it seems like you get a lot for that extra money for a setup like this.
     
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  15. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    You got me thinking miscrms that a DC-DC converter with adjustable output would be ideal.

    Have a short trip again? Crank up the juice! Got a long trip ahead? Crank it down!

    Bonus points for being able to fully program it based on various inputs such as throttle, brake, OEM battery charge, ambient temperature, etc.
     
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  16. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    Manzanita Micro's PHEV converter does all that. They use feedback from the CAN-View to dynamically set the output voltage as I recall. Down side is its $2500, for just the converter/charger.

    Actually krousb's setup is pretty clever, as he can select whether to have 1 or 2 converters powered on to do exactly as you describe. Ultimately it shouldn't matter for long trips whether you get 100mpg for half the time and then 50 for the remainder, or 75mpg the whole time, but its still kind of cool.

    Rob
     
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  17. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    This is the only part of this setup I'm a little worried about. Paralleling 2 dc:dc converters is usually ok as they are pretty much just acting like current sources. Paralleling 2 smart chargers can be tricky, as each one is watching the pack voltage trying to decide when to terminate charging. I would worry a bit about them faking each other out and not fully charging or worse one missing the charge termination cue and overcharging. Do you know what the charge profile is and what they are using for charge termination? If its some kind of peak or dV/dt sensing I would be concerned. If they can get away with just some kind of simple Constant Current / Constant Voltage setup it would probably be ok.

    Either way I'd just keep an eye on it the first time you charge and see what happens.
     
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  18. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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  19. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    We are facing again the original concept of PiPrius on the DC-DC converter, not a new development only cheaper. With the only difference that the Manzanita Micro converter can handle 40Amps with out hesitation and supports 100% pure electric EV mode as long as the battery source will last.
    It worked for me in a daily basis for 9 months in a row until I changed my PHEV conversion to the production #1 BMS+ family of products as a test pilot from Hybrid Interfaces.
    This concept really works as a low current buffer to the OEM NiMH. krousdb is taking it a NOTCH up.....:D with the 8KW.
    With regards to the smart chargers, I hope that krousdb is charging his 8KW pack in 2 different sections, meaning two 4Kw LiFePO4 to take full advantage of a fast charging procedure with 2 smart chargers that will NOT interact withing each other under the same load.

    DRESS, jump to the ManzanitaMicro web site and get familiarized about the PiPrius concept of operation or the same information in to the EAA-PHEV archive files .
     
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  20. krousdb

    krousdb NX-74205

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    See my previous response.
     
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