Don't assume your Toyota dealer will use the correct oil.

"5W 20 is the only oil we stock in our shop"

IMO that is an unacceptable answer for a Dealership Service department. The dealership and Toyota now sell a very popular model that requires and recommends 0W-20 so IMO it is the dealerships service departments responsibility to have it in stock and make it available since they are suppose to support the products the dealership sells. Just because perhaps they never needed it before doesn't mean they don't need it now.

I'd walk and never use that dealership for service.

 

I meant no offense suggesting DIY oil changes. I too have learned - the hard way - that most dealerships, no matter what brand they represent, are barely capable of getting such simple things correct

Most likely, in a moderate climate, the use of 5W-20 or even 5W-30 will cause no harm. But I wonder how much of the Toyota Sludge lawsuit was due to dealerships using the wrong oil, or crap oil?

Say the use of improper oil causes a gelling/sludge issue in a 2010 Prius. Does that turn into a pissing match between the owner, the dealership, and Toyota?

As the Sludge class action lawsuit proved, yes, it DID turn into a pissing match. There are enough horror stories out there of minor maintenance going horribly wrong, and the owner left to pick up the pieces

 

What you believe is IRRELEVANT. There is a warranty issue with this. I'm not sure why "we" would have "quite a rep with mechanics"...other than the problem of many mechanics being incredibly incompetent and using outdated rules of thumb and urban legends to guide their work. The other problem would be few mechanics are going to spend the time to learn the vehicles and it is not the type of vehicle one can bullshit their way through.

The Prius on average has had more technically savvy buyers, including being overweight in engineers. Mechanics, body shops, builders, plumbers, etc. often lament having to deal with engineers. Why? Because engineers tend to want things done to specs and are somewhat harder to fool with bullshit...and the trades have a habit of using old standby excuses for not doing what they are supposed to.

Perhaps if the average mechanic would even bother to check the oil level of the dipstick after a fill, we might have a bit more faith in them?

 

Right. How is it "ok" to have the oil level half an inch or more over the full dot? Why even have a dipstick if it "doesn't matter" the oil is so grossly overfull?

We have had enough reports of simple maintenance being totally fubar'd. Major warranty work, eg suspension parts, brakes, whatever, also going horribly wrong

 

Let me tell you three things my experience tells me.

1. It does not matter why Toyota did this.

2. Your and my opinions mean nothing.

3. You never do anything that might give an auto manufacturer a valid reason to not honor their warranty.

It is stated right in the manual and on the fill cap that Toyota requires the Prius use 0w20 except for a one time 5w20 fill if 0w20 is unavailable. It also states that the 5w20 must be removed at the next oil change and replaced with 0w20. It is clear and, if push came to shove, totally enforceable in court or arbitration.

 

Jayman, and others as well -

No offense taken and none meant by my comment, which might have gone off a little half-cocked, borne of frustration. I only meant to emphasize that it isn't always an option (for me at the moment, for others at all). I agree fully it's best to DIY if possible--and I do enjoy it. Otherwise, though, the customer *should* have a reasonable expectation that something as conceptually and logistically simple as an OC isn't effed up by a dealer. The more I learn--most of that here on this very useful site--it is becoming apparent to me that, unfortunately, that is *not* a reasonable expectation.

But hey, at least the guy was kind enough to put in writing a strong implication that their dealership will by default use a non-recommended oil. You can darn well bet that email will be archived and backed up!

Best to all
Tim

 

What's the name of the lazy/incompetant dealer? They are the poster child for going to someone who is interested in doing the job right.

 

I appreciate that you have years of experience servicing many vehicles you've owned, and I thank you for sharing your opinion. Still, you are sharing your opinion, only. If you can provide empirical data finding that any 5W-20 oil will have the same performance and lack of damage to the Prius ICE as will 0W-20 synthetic oil, then share it with us at the same time you are drafting a writing to Toyota showing them why they need to retract their statement(s) in the manuals (and removal of the oil fill cap descriptions).

Here are responses that I think are appropriately framing the issue(s) to be considered:

So. Even if 5W-20 works well, the issue isn't resolved, is it? Much more is at stake here.

I agree with this. Your opinion matters not a whit more than mine when it comes to fulfillment of hte warrant(ies). It is the opinion of someone at Toyta that is going to matter, and I, for one, do not want to be the poster-boy for litigation, succesful or otherwise.

 

I'm still hopefull that this issue might be resolved in a more favorable manner, so I'm loath to name names at this point. I still await a response from Toyota. If you're in the Baltimore areammmmm; pm me.

 

Correct. Say it turns out that once the temps are -20 F or colder, using a 5W-20 will damage the 2010 motor in some way. It's towed to a dealership, and they deny warranty due to improper oil used

It's entirely possible you could retain a lawyer, and after great expense, win the case. How long did the sludge class action lawsuit take? Five years?

If Toyota provided an owner manual like for the EU market, that CLEARLY specified a range of viscosity based on ambient temp, we wouldn't have this confusion.

Since the oil fill cap clearly states "0W-20" and nothing else, our options are very limited. There is nothing wrong with synthetic 0W-20, I used it in my 2004 Prius for 3.5 years with very good results.

Oddly enough, even though Toyota released a TSB stating 5W-20 was ok for the FJ Cruiser, my FJ does not like xW-20. So YMMV

 

Went for first Oil Change last week at Toyota Dealership where I bought the car. Saleman had given me a $9.95 Oil Change.
They use 0W20 Mobil One.
I got to watch, so I can do one myself when I get the urge.

Price with ups and extras, came ot to $17.95, but from now on will be close to $60, according to the service department clerk.

BTW, the mechanic had serviced Priuses before, and knew where to find everything. Says they use nothing but Mobil One

 

Thank you for your guidance, I was foolish to post on priuschat. One request to those that read these oil threads; go to Mobil1, Amsoil, Castrol sites and pull up the data sheets on 0w20 and 5w20 synthetic oil to compare the numbers between brands and manufacturers. You will see that there is very little difference 0w20 and 5w20 synthetic oil, certainly nothing that will scrap an engine.
Again, sorry for posting priuschat.

 

No need to get in a snit about this. It has nothing to do with your opinion about the quality of the oil, and no one is attacking your experience, expertise or knowledge about oil (or at least I'm not). When I say that on the question of the quality of the oils, or the differences between them, your opinion matters not a whit, I don't mean you haven't anything to say, or any right to say it, or that you don't know what you are talking about. What I mean is exactly what I wrote -- nobody's opinion matters but Toyota's when it comes to determining whether the warranty will be honored if there is engine damage or sludging.

The entire issue here is whether we'll be able to get the appropriate oil in our 2010s to maintain the manufacturer's warranty.

 

Exactly, that's the same thing I said, but Duffer still doesn't seem to get it (or at least acknowledge it.)

It's the same reason I don't greatly extend the miles between oil changes on synthetic...until the drivetrain warranty no longer applies.

 

Following is a redacted copy of an email I sent to my former Toyota dealer. I guess I made the mistake of being the first Gen 3 customer to need a 5k service. To be fair, the customer service rep called and offered to comp my next service. I declined because I have truely lost confidence in the dealership .

"I've been a long-time, and usually very satisified customer of ..... I've bought a total of four cars there since mid-2006 and have been very pleased with the sales staff and, until recently, the service. My most recent purchase was a 2010 Prius a couple of months ago. My dealings with .... were extremely positive on a personal and professional basis. Then came my first 5,000 mile service with the new Prius....

The service appointment was at first what I've come to expect: the greeter and service representative were personable and efficient, and the wait was not excessive. On the way home, however, I noted that the gas mileage for the 5 mile trip home was under 35mpg, well below the 53mpg the car achieved on my first trip home from the dealership. I'm not particularly obsessive about the mileage, but that seemed very unusual. I checked the bill and found that I was charged the normal (5W30) price for the oil change part of the service that I have been charged in the past for my older (2006 and 2008) Prius, and deduced that the more expensive 0W20 (synthetic) oil recommended for the 2010 Prius had not been used. I called the service rep, and was told that 5W30 was the recommended oil for the Prius, and that I was certainly mistaken about the 0W20. I thanked him and hung up.

The next day (last Thursday), after having checked the recommended oil for my 2008 Prius (5W30) and my 2010 (0W20) I called the service department and asked to speak with the service manager. After explaining my concern, he condescendingly informed me that he had been servicing Prius for many years, and the recommended oil is 5W30, that they had even received a service bulletin regarding the fact that it is still the recommendation for the 2010, but if I want, the next time I could certainly ask for 0W20. I was also informed that the 0W20 was certainly not a synthetic oil.

I then called Toyota USA and asked what kind of oil I should expect, and was told unequivically that that the service should be 0W20. I was also told that I would be receiving a call from your dealership within three business days. Yesterday was the end of three business days, and I've heard nothing. I called your service department yesterday afternoon to set up an appointment to replace the oil -- at my charge -- and the service rep transferred my call, without asking me, to the parts department so that I could check to see if they had the oil that I wanted. No one was in the parts department, and I left an irate message in voice mail.

I then called (another)Toyota (dealer). The woman who answered the phone in the service department knew, without prompting, that the recommended oil was 0W20 and set me up with an immediate appointment, and I finally got my oil changed to what Toyota recommended.

Obviously, I've lost confidence in your Service Department. And I guarantee that if other 2010 Prius owners get the same treatment that I received, it will affect your business. Sorry for this rant, but you need to know what this previously loyal customer went through."

 

Oh for f*ck's sake. This is exactly the type of experience I had. I've been around enough that these monumental displays of stupidity mixed with arrogance should long ago have ceased to amaze me, but still. Unbelievable. And, given the ballyhoo from the highest quarters within Toyota about the Gen III, I have to spread some of the blame in their overall corporate direction. I realize the immediate vectors of this idiocy are the dealerships, but how on earth can you release what is arguably your brand's most significant new automobile in 7 or 8 years and not give your dealer network the slightest bit of a heads-up as to the most basic things about servicing it, like, oh, say, just as an example, the *oil* required to keep from potentially voiding the warranty? And I just simply don't believe it is that difficult to disseminate the information (as the golden-shovel-award-winner I dealt with implied). One email to the service network distribution list should do it.

 

Gee, my first Toyota, But I think I might have a clue as to why Toyota has or had an oil sludging problem
My dealer put the wrong oil in too, I didn't bother fighting them, just changed it myself, and they won't see me again either.

 

Guy's I believe it's real simple. Mobil 1 0W-20 is several times more expensive than bulk 5W-30, is something else to have to stock, and I'm sure the Prius will make it to warranty end with it, so why bother?
With that kind of attitude, what other short cuts are being taken?