I almost ran someone over today in the parking lot.

I'm talking specifically about Prius/pedestrian interaction, not people walking into poles.

 

That's too simplistic. It a quiet environment yes it is true. A lot of the discussion here is about car parks. It is no coincence that is where many problems arise. There is a certain level of ambient noise there, particularly in enclosed car parks with sound-reflecting concrete walls. There is no doubt Prius is quieter than other cars at low speed, and when the ambient noise reaches a certain level then pedestrians will simply NOT hear you while they will still hear other cars. It's obviously true - I've had far more 'incidents' of people walking in front and not getting out of the way since I had a Prius than before.

Edit - I should add none of these situations was remotely dangerous. They were all at extremely low speeds. I don't think there is any need for automatic noisemakers etc.

 

Did anyone see Nurse Jackie the other day about the guy who decided to cross the street while working on his laptop?

Here in SF I don't think it matters how loud or quiet your vehicle is. Yesterday I had a guy who was walking about 10 feet from the corner as I started to turn and decided he should start running because the walk light started to flash Dont Walk.

 

You must of low turbulence ears and helmet straps. When I'm pedaling at 15 mph, wind noise is completely masking a significant fraction of all vehicles traveling at street (not highway) speed.

I can sharply reduce wind noise by turning my head slightly, but this causes neck cramps and eye strain.

 

I've been called worse.

Plenty of doubt - I drive an EV!

While I still don't agree that the Prius can't be heard - I've been in car parks before! - what you're saying here supports the concept that we should work toward making ALL cars quieter instead of any car louder for "safety." And I'm guessing you agree with that. Just wanted to point it out since adding noise is what so many law makers are thinking of mandating. It is sort of like wanting to buy a bigger car to be safe. Then your neighbor buys a bigger car than yours, and you have to go out and get a bigger one, and...

Nobody disagrees that pedestrians don't pay attention to EVs and hybrids and bicycles and other pedestrians. I'm just saying that it is individual unawareness... not that the cars can't be heard. I very often AM one of those pedestrians in the very places where the cars "can't be heard." I can hear them... and my hearing is not all that great.

Excellent. In the end, it truly is up to the operator of the killing machine to not kill anybody!

I'm constantly adjusting my head position when I want to hear things around me. I also use a mirror to actually *see* what's behind me. Imagine that - being aware of my surroundings.

When I drive my EV or my Prius or my bicycles or my shoes... I always pretend that I'm invisible and silent. Nothing surprises me anymore.

 

I've found out, just recently, exactly how dangerous it can be to drive a quiet Prius in a parking lot. People just don't seem to notice things all around them:



Do you think it was because the Prius is so quiet? Or because I was driving so slowly?

I may have been driving slowly and quietly, but it wasn't enough to prevent this accident.

I thought the guy saw me. He hesitated, so I thought he knew I was there; then, all of a sudden, he just jumped back. I stepped on the brakes and stopped in about 3 feet. I slammed the horn and didn't let go -- until after he hit me!

He later claimed he didn't really notice my horn until just as he hit me!

Pretty amazing amount of damage to my Prius, isn't it?

The other guy's minivan didn't look very good either, 'cause he had stepped on the accelerator right after he hesitated. He accelerated right into my bumper. (More on the whole lovely incident on my thread: Again & Again!! Third Time to be Hit in Four Months -- Back to the Same Repair Shop . . Again! )

Yes, everyone is just fine. No injuries to people.

 

Ouch!!

I was a bit concerned about these responses, but I haven't seen behavior (or comments) by this poster that warrants such a tough response to his comments.

His comments did not offer much of a clue to me as to the concern I'm certain he intended to express, but I've read other of his posts, and I've found him to be a constructive participant in PC.

 

There is a lot of doubt since the Europeans measured the sound level of cars and published a list. The Prius was not the quietest. In fact it was ~2 dB louder than the quietist if I remember correctly:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5
0	count	Model	Description	Noise Level dB(A)
1	1	3 Series E90/E91/E92/E93	320d CoupÈ - with particle filter - up to August 2008	66.0
2	2	3 Series E90/E91/E92/E93	320d Convertible - with particle filter - up to August 2008	66.0
3	3	X Trail 2007	2.0 dCi 4x4 110kW	66.2
4	4	Mazda6 (2008 MY)	2.0 4 Door	66.7
5	5	Mazda6 (2008 MY)	2.0 5 Door	66.7
6	..	...	...	...
7	156	Liana	1.6 GLX Hatchback From VIN JSAERC31S00350001	69.0
8	157	Auris	1.4 VVT-i 3 & 5 door	69.0
9	158	Prius[/B]	1.5 VVT-i Hybrid[/B]	69.0[/B]
10	159	Astra	MY2008 3 Door Hatchback	1.6i 16v VVT 16" wheel	69.0
11	160	Astra MY2009 3 Door Hatchback	1.6i 16v VVT	69.0
12	161	Astra	MY2008 5 Door Hatchback	1.6i 16v VVT 5 Door Hatchback with 15/16" wheel	69.0
13	..	...	...	...
14	3870	XC60 Model Year 09	2.4D AWD Geartronic	76.0
15	3871	Espace	2.0 dCi 150	76.2
16	3872	Cayenne S	6-speed	77.0
17	3873	Cayenne Turbo S	Tiptronic S	82.0

.
I was wrong, it was 3 dB louder, which in sound energy levels is 10 times louder. This was the NHW20 model. The ZVW30 seems to be even louder.

This is called an anecdotal report and though interesting, it is not empirical data. A better source would be to survey the security cameras at parking lots, especially between Thanksgiving and Christmas, to identify and map close calls by vehicle or better yet, whole incidents. This would make a credible report and I'd suggested it to the National Federation of the Blind.

"It's" an opinion unless backed up by empirical data. At best, we might call it a hypothesis but we really need facts and data.

Bob Wilson

 

Amazing, so he wasn't driving by hearing either. <grins>

Bob Wilson

 

Nope! He was a very nice guy who just didn't see me. He had hesitated just to make certain all was clear, but when he saw someone else driving into the parking lot, he wanted to quickly get out of the way of that other driver. That's why he "gunned" it and just slammed into me.

 

I have a hearing disability.I cannot hear the beeper because of its frequency sound.

 

Can you provide a link for that data or at least more information? What speed are we talking about? A single number is not that useful, you really want to compare noise at a range of speeds. Note also that the context for the discussion was car parks, so my basis for noise comparison is at speeds of 10mph or less. I would assume the noise vs speed slope is different for the Prius vs other cars.

 

Target seems to have an alarming amount of danger. I was running 'stealthy', came around a corner, and almost clipped a pedestrian. I'm just happy I was paying attention (as I should be, as a driver of a potentially dangerous vehicle), knew who had the right-of-way, and stopped my shopping cart quickly enough to both avoid the pedestrian, and miss the display of Tide. I wish people would pay more attention while shopping.......

 

What speed and is that with the ICE running or off in the Prius?

 

It doesn't matter what you are driving. There are people that will walk at a crawl in front of a Mac truck. In NYC they are called professional pedestrians.

 

Take a look here: VCAcarfueldata.org.uk - Downloads

Use the "Download Data for May 2009" although last year, I only had access to "Download Data for May 2008". When you load the excel spreadsheet, you get a wealth of information including the "noise level." They also have a download of the ZVW30 data too, 69.0 dBA.

Bob Wilson

 

Thanks.

From the accompanying pdf document:

The current noise test for passenger cars, as detailed in EU Directive 92/97 (as last amended by
2007/34/EC), consists of driving the vehicle into the test area at a speed of 50 km/hr and then accelerating
at full throttle through the test area. A microphone at a set distance from the line of travel measures the maximum
level of noise reached which is then compared to the limit value to determine pass or fail.

So as I suspected, that is not really a useful metric for this particular discussion, where the issue is relative noise levels when moving at far lower speeds.

 

There are also the "squirrels" -- people who wait patiently at the curb until you approach and then they panic and run across right in front of your car! Squirrels don't care what sort of car or how noisy/quiet it is. They only run out into the road when there is a good chance of you hitting them.

 

I am hereby suggesting that Toyota offer as an option an electric horn that plays "La Cuceracha" outside the vehicle when selecting reverse, or when operating the vehicle at low stealth speeds in parking lots. I would gladly pay to replace the 'beep' with a factory option. Seems a natural to me, unless "La Cuceracha" is an unknown commodity in Japan, which I find hard to believe. Or a programmable horn with several selectable options - "March Slav", "Thus Spake Zarathusta", "Les Preludes" (think old Flash Gordon movies), "1812 Overture" - endless options, all of which Toyota could license for distribution and sell to us!

 

I actually remember a few years ago hearing a regular looking minivan that did play La Cuceracha when it was backing up. At the time I feared it was the start of a disastrous new trend, happily I have not heard one since. And I wouldn't be surprised if that particular vehicle was sabotaged by an irate neighbor.