Don't assume your Toyota dealer will use the correct oil.

FWIW I stopped at my dealer the other day and asked about the oil for the 2010 Prius and he said it is 0-20w Toyota brand.
Asked if i could see it and he toook me to the parts department and and asked the guy for the 2010 Prius oil and he brought out a 1 qt bottle of Toyota oil that was red and marked 0-20w and full syn.
Asked what the 5000 mile service was with that oil and he said $55 including tire rotation and all the check over stuff.
Asked if they were gonna carry it in bulk and he said no. Didnt want it sitting around in a tank not being used fast enough.

 

OK, here is my experience. Names changed to protect the (probably not too) innocent. It pretty much corroborates the OP's point. Sorry about the long post; this is an email I sent to the service department and Toyota; the dealership responded, but not yet heard from Toyota Corporate. Begin forwarded message:


To: Service Email
Cc: Ask Toyota
Subject: service followup: issues with 5K maintenance on 2010 Prius: *NOT* 100% satisfied
Hello, <Dealership name withheld> and Toyota Cares:

I am writing as a follow-up, having received a postcard asking me to let you know if I am not 100% satisfied. I am copying Toyota Cares because, after phoning other dealerships and discussing this issue with other owners, I do not think this is limited to <Dealership name withheld>.

The issue is as follows:

I brought the vehicle in for the 5K service on Saturday, August 15, 2009. Prior to this, I had called and received a price quote of "about $69.00." I asked the woman to whom I spoke on the phone, "Does this price include the 0W-20 weight oil, as specified in the manual?" After placing me briefly on hold, she responded "yes."

On the date of service, the gentleman (Mr. X) at the service bay quoted me the same price. I asked, again, "Is that the 0W-20 weight oil?" He, too, responded "yes." I asked if that was synthetic, and he said "yes."

Well, when the car was finished and the bill came back, it was for $92.37. Naturally, I expressed my surprise, and was told that was because "I asked for a special oil." I told him I had (I thought, anyway) clarified this up-front twice, first by phone, and then in person with him, mentioning what the owner's manual specifies (see below). He insisted that I asked for a "special oil," and closed the conversation by stating "So what's the problem?" Perhaps he was having a bad day.

As Toyota Corporate presumably knows, and any service agent should as well, the owner's manual states "SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather. If SAE 0W-20 is not available, SAE 5W-20 may be used. However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change." See p. 552 of the owner's manual for details. Furthermore, the filler cap specifically is marked "0W-20." These facts clearly imply that SAE 0W-20 should be used except in a pinch.

To make sure I am informed on this matter, I called <Dealership name withheld> service department on Wednesday, August 26, and asked what a 5K service cost, what oil was put in, etc. The woman at that point quoted me a price of $39.00 and said it did not include a tire rotation. When I asked about the oil type, viscosity, and whether or not it was synthetic, I was finally put in touch with someone who told me that (a) if I just walked in off the street and asked for an oil change, I would get SAE 5W-20, non-synthetic, and (b) the only SAE 0W-20 Toyota carries is full synthetic. This directly contravenes the owner's manual which implies that SAE 5W-20 should only be used as a last resort. When I mentioned this to him, he responded that there's really nothing to worry about, these engines can run just fine on 5W-20, etc. He sort of hemmed and hawwed when I asked if that would be a potential warranty issue should something bad happen to the engine. I did not get this gentleman's name, but at least he was nice, friendly, and willing to spend time on the phone in a legitimate attempt to answer my questions.

In closing, my two complaints are:

(1) I was given incorrect information multiple times by various personnel at <Dealership name withheld>. I found Mr. X’s attitude to my concerns to be dismissive and off-putting (not a huge deal, we can all have a bad day, but still...). I am not suggesting that he outright lied to me, but I believe he clearly had (and should have used) the opportunity to inform me upfront that the SAE 0W-20 oil was more expensive; had he done so, I still would have bought it, and I probably wouldn't be writing this today. I'm far less concerned about the extra $23.00 or so than I am about the process. Most concerning is the fact that it seems as if I were to go into the dealership and ask for an oil change, I would get the wrong viscosity oil put in the engine; if I were to return for the next service and do the same thing, that would specifically violate the maintenance requirements as specified on p. 552 of the owner's manual.

(2) As I mentioned, I called other dealerships in the area, and, although I did not spend as much time discussing matters with them, they, too, seemed confused about what oil belongs in this car. Given that Toyota had a well-known problem with oil sludge in some of its engines in the past (and I believe lost a class-action lawsuit over it), I would expect the dealerships to be more aware of the service requirements of their cars, at least more so than their customers are. Or, alternatively, does the engine truly run just fine on the cheaper, SAE 5W-20-weight oil, and this is a merely a calculated scheme on the part of Toyota to get more money out of their customers? Either explanation is problematic to me as a customer. Whatever the case may be, clearly there is a need for Toyota to provide its dealerships and service establishments with more comprehensive and accurate information.

I may or may not return to <Dealership name withheld> for my next service; if I do, and similar issues arise, I will have service performed at an independent establishment, or do it myself, since there seems to be no real benefit (and perhaps a detriment) to entrusting the car to a Toyota dealer.

I regret having to send this email, but I truly think it is necessary. I look forward to a response from both the dealership and from Toyota Corporate.

Sincerely,

Timo27


Hello Timo27:
Thank you for your input - and I apologize on behalf of the entire organization for our confusion in addressing what, to the end consumer, must seem like a simple issue.

It really should be simple, but unfortunately, there are hidden complications. We are in the process of trying to solidify the priciing, oil change interval, and recommendation scripts for these services. Some of these factors are still under consideration, and we are unsure what recommendations will become permanent as
customer demands, corporate fuel economy, environmental issues, and product availability are all in flux at this time.

It is no simple matter to program our computer database to accomodate all the different services, different oil capacities/coolant/spark plug variations and then accomodate oil type and price differences, when the wholesale oil prices are constantly changing. The database holds over 50,000 maintenance service variations, and while some updates can be done in bulk, the update verifications must be done manually, one at a time - there's no substitute for a real person reading the data. A secondary problem arises when customers decide they want the less expensive option in oil choices, adding another dimension to the database, with more maintenance overhead - there's no end in sight.
We will be able to quote a dollar-accurate service price as soon as the programming/updating has been completed -

Our current experience is also that the majority of customers do not want the extra expense of the full synthetic oil, and opt for our synthetic blended 5w-20, which is a fully functional option and presents no operational issues. To accomodate customers such as yourself, we do have the 0w-20 available in case lots, but the 0w-20 is now in the process of becoming available in bulk quantity, which should help stabilize the pricing, and it is our plan to have some generic service option pricing in place as soon as the bulk quantities can begin delivery.

I apologize for throwing all this information your way, but you seem to be the type of person who needs to understand the system, and what's happening, and we are happy to share the information with you.

We certainly appreciate your desire to properly maintain your Toyota, and wish to support you in that effort.

Again, I apologize for the current informational confusion. We'll have it standardized as soon as possible.

Thank you

<Name withheld>
Svc.Mgr.

 

...but in his very polite and seemingly detailed response, he neglects to directly address the warrantee issues.

There doesn't seem to be any ambiguity on the part of Toyota's recommendation/specification of which viscosity of motor oil is to be used in the 2010 Prius. And as far as the difficulty of programming their computer system, I'm sorry but that's their problem, not ours!

 

In his 'politeness' he also fails to address the unethical business practice of quoting a fictitious low price before the service, then demanding a higher price after the fact. I'm detecting and having to refuse these 'errors' much more frequently in recent years.

 

This entire response from Toyota caused my bullshit detector to go into overdrive.

"We are in the process of trying to solidify the priciing, oil change interval, and recommendation scripts for these services." Because no one at Toyota knew we were about to release a new Prius until they started showing up at dealerships

"To accomodate costumers like yourself", you know the type. People who actually read the manual and then try and follow the recommendations to keep a warranty in force. PITA they are.

"You seem to be the type of person who needs to understand the system". Well duh. It's the system that will decide if my car remains covered by your warranty.

 

I'm trying to recall the last time I let a dealer change the oil (using their own oil) in any vehicle. It has been at least a decade. At the "free" Prius oil change I brought my own synthetic for my GenII.

I've yet to see a Toyota dealer or corporate blink when their own unethical or downright illegal service practices were pointed out to them. Caveat emptor.

On average in the seven years I've owned Toyota's the average dealer service experience has been abysmal, well below that of Nissan and Chevy...and slightly worse than Honda and Chrysler. There have been some exceptions including my current dealer. My better Toyota experiences have typically been for warranty work. On the other hand, my Tundra has had a lot of warranty work related to the O2 system and exhaust manifolds so I rank Toyota well below Honda and Nissan for repair history.

 

The difference between 0w20 and 5w20 synthetic oil is so minimal that the only damage that could be caused by running one weight instead of the other, would be to the brain of the owner who reads his manual too much.

 

Had the initial 3,000 service at my dealer (Metro Toyota, Kalamazoo, MI) yesterday. The service advisor voluntarily brought up the different oil weight issue himself in the post-service briefing. He indicated that the specified oil was not yet available in bulk but that they did have it available in quarts for customers who wanted it. BTW, the service was free to me; the new car sales department paid the service department for the first oil change. And, before I left the service advisor showed me what a typical oil change service would cost ($77) so I wouldn't be surprised when I went in for the next service.

We have purchased 8 Toyotas from this dealer over the past 30+ years and have felt well-treated and valued as a long-time customer. We did not feel that way from the Chrysler/VW/Subaru dealer from whom we purchased 2 vehicles during that same period. From some of the posts on various PC forums, it appears that our positive experience with Metro Toyota is not as typical as one would have hoped.

 

The oil cap is clearly stamped "0W-20"

If some dealerships are as clueless and/or unethical as a few of the posters have commented, who knows what ends up in your crank? 5W-30? Used gear oil??

Another good reason to do your own servicing.

 

I'm a software engineer and my specialty is database apps. What he's talking about here is what computers do best.

oh, and he misspelled accommodate twice

 

I echo jburns & Texas112 responses. The response from Toyota was a full on political double-speak non-answer loaded with BS. Databases are crafted so the computer can put obscure facts from millions of bits & bytes of information in very short amounts of time.

The manufacturer chose to go into this business, they chose to create the maintenance variations, they chose to require 0W20. It sounds like they now do not want to expend the effort on behalf of the buyers of their products; and the local dealers have been caught napping, or they are counting on so few of us reading the manual (and the oil cap) that they will tolerate a few complaints that arise from their taking the easy, and cheap, way out.

It all sounds most unfortunate . . . --TK

 

Another good reason why its best to service your vehicle Toyota or not yourself. I am confident in my ability to do it 100% correct 100 % of the time. And for ($92) they should be filling it with Royal Purple or Amsoil. Do yourself a favor and learn to service your own vehicle with routine maintenance and it will also cost you about 1/3 rd that price.

 

Thank you Mr. Expert. I'll request Toyota to add your comments to the owner's manual.

 

When you do, please be sure to ask them to tell Mr. Expert why, if Mr. Expert's opinion is correct, Toyota did not allow for exclusive use of 5w/20 in the Owner's Manual.....
Then Mr. Expert can come back and graciously enlighten us all....:cheer2:
I, for one, would like to know....

 

My experience of years and years of oil threads, reading everything that I could from oil manufacturers, owning 8 motorcycles, 3 trucks, and 4 cars over 24 years. Nothing that I have ever seen or heard has given any evidence that using a 5w20 vs a 0w20 synthetic oil in a car engine would do any harm or make any measurable difference in mileage. I believe that Toyota put that in the manual to stroke the green movement and the anal Prius drivers. We do have quite a rep with mechanics already...

 

Yeah! BAD, BAD green movement and all you anal Prius drives!!! out:

 

Of course, the warranty issue remains a question mark. Say the Prius is refilled with whatever crap no-name recycled stuff from the tote bin out back. There is a sudden cold snap.

Oops, something happens to the motor. Is there a pissing match between the owner, the dealer, and Toyota regarding warranty?

 

Yes. It bears repeating that this email was sent to me from the dealer, not Toyota Corporate. I found it to be a virtually impenetrable swamp of words calculated to placate me and absolve them of any blame (it did neither). I posted it partly for the entertainment value, so I hope some of you all got a cynical giggle out of it as well. That's about all the value it has. I still await a response from Toyota (I'll post it if it seems like it might be helpful).

To all those who say "just do it yourself," I get your point and all, but, honestly, and I hope you don't take offense at this, it grows a little tiresome. I know how to change oil, have done it on a bunch of different cars in the past, don't mind getting my hands dirty and would gladly do it on the Prius if I had the space or place to do it legally and safely. Someday I will. I'm sure there are many others out there in the same or similar situations, or who physically cannot do it (my 80-year-old Mom has a Prius--should she change her oil herself?), or just don't want to and are willing to pay someone else.

My points with the email to/from Toyota and the dealer are (a) I don't appreciate being bullshitted, and there's really nothing else to call it; (b) if you're going to upcharge me, tell me upfront, not after the fact; and (c) there is no, I repeat NO excuse for a dealer's service department to know so little about one of their products, not to mention one that is generating as much interest as the new Prius. Add to that the canned blather we all heard at the point of purchase that "this is a complex machine and no one knows it better than your Toyota dealer and you should buy our pre-paid maintenance plan and just trust us because if you so much as even look at, let alone drive by, another shop, your Prius will probably explode, and at the very least need years of expensive therapy."

Like NoMoShocks and others have said, their ignorance is not the customer's problem. (Well, I guess it can be our *problem* when they screw something up, but it isn't our fault).