Rogue Toyota Dealers Price Gouging on 2010 Prius

>The bottom line is probably most of the people that C4C helped were poor people - I'm sick of my tax dollars buying things for these people. Especially cars.<<M

Yikes...this myth was killed weeks ago. The average income of the folks that use the C4C was over $47k. Which in America the USA puts the about right in the middle of the middle case.

It really does help with an argument that the facts stated in said arguments have good relationship with actual facts and numbers rather than just making them up.

I mean even though I was in favor of the C$C program, I could make a strong argument that could point out some of the many weaknesses in the program. But with real numbers and facts which would require some time and effort to research them beyond my own emotions and TV.


Steve

 

Well congratulations are certainly in order for the OP...the same free market capitalism that caused the OP to not purchase from one dealer actually got the OP a better deal...nothing wrong with that!

Congrats...hope you love your car and because you got the deal you wanted I'm sure it's even more enjoyable to drive!

 

Your post is so wrong in so many ways.

First. The legislation was created by the auto industry and dealers themselves to benefit no one else except themselves, then secondarily their suppliers. It was meant to boost the auto industry ( most of the major ones, their dealers and their suppliers ). In doing so the economy prospers. It worked exactly as they had planned for it to work. In fact it worked even better than planned.

Second. 'these people' sounds awfully like a code word. But here again you're sadly mistaken. In fact the ones taking the most advantage of the program were the well-organized and well-to-do. This may make you sicker but your tiny part of this program ( roughly $10 was your contribution to the $3 Billion ) went to those better off than you ( probably ). The 'unworthy poor' ( 'these people' ) generally did not take advantage of the program. Explanation upon request.

Third. The lenders and banks are benefitting nicely by getting a higher level of clientele who are taking loans on vehicles with 20% downpayments and no negative equity.

 

Good summary. These were the primary benefits planned by the auto industry for its own members.

 

True no one has to pay any jacked up price...unless that buyer sees value in doing so. Then the price is perfectly valid.

You're right these inflated ADM's probably won't last long...that is unless demand continues to outstrip supply. When supply comes back into balance with demand that's when 'normal pricing' will return to the market.

 

There is an unstated assumption here, that the replacement, higher mpg vehicle will not be driven more than the clunker.

Don't bet on it. In fact, the failure of CAFE increases through the years to reign in US fuel consumption rather suggests just the opposite.

 

We traded in a 20mpg overall AWD wagon that wasn't a clunker (over the 18mpg limit) and got a 50mpg Prius. 2.5x the fuel economy and we got less on our trade than people trading in an older gas guzzler for a new gas guzzler. Now that is something to cry about, IMO. Of course, YMMV.

 

I'm in So Cal, and there was a big shortage of Prius' (really all small cars). I needed to get in on the Cash Clunkers program, so I was calling everywhere - Note Costco's auto program saves like $1K, but none of the participating dealers had cars (I searched 500 miles out).

THe local dealers who could get me a car in time all seemed to jack up the price over the days before I bought mine (last Sat). It seemed they all agreed on $2K +MSRP. The way they did it was by adding $2K crome wheels I finally found cars in the Palm Springs area and Las Vegas. ended up $250 below MSRP - not great - but not bad (and I no longer have my 15mpg Xterra)

 

Actually CAFE has been phenomenally successful!!! That's why it was extended and toughened at the end of Bush II and again this year.

The purpose is NOT to reduce our consumption of petro products as a nation; the purpose is to reduce our individual consumption of petro products.

The 'failure' was due to the weak-kneed support of Bush I and Clinton in not racheting up the standards. The standards were essentially the same from 1990 to 2007.

 

Indy, these cars sitting on lots are not going back on roads. They are destroyed. First their engines are seized and frozen by a cheical that ruins them. Then they are hauled off and crushed.

 

I want to add something here.
.....you can vote with your wallets... if a car is too much, you can walk. As dealerships, we can't. Invoice is invoice and we have to make the best of it. The cars we sell, many have such a small profit margin in them, many dealerships can't survive without adding a little extra here and there.

Example:

2010 Yaris hatchback automatic with convenience package and mats. MSRP 14,983. Invoice? $14,348.

Prius II MSRP is $22950 with mats. Invoice? $22065.

Corolla LE with the "usual" MSRP $17950 has a $16,638 invoice.

Camry LE with mats is 22,850 MSRP and $20,869 at invoice.

Tacoma shortbed automatic is $16,890 at MSRP and $16091 at invoice.

Tacoma automatic SR5 accesscab is 22289 at MSRP and $20899 at invoice.

We can't tell Toyota to stuff the cars because they invoice too high. Matter of fact, factory incentives go to YOU as a comsumer. Rates, leases, rebates -- all to the buyers.

I don't care what store you work at... if your "bread and butter" cars have barely 5%-10% profit in them, and you have overhead like flooring, office staff, porters, carwash/detail issues, and a store to support, you're screwed without some extraneous opportunity at profit like finance, added extras, etc.

Di

 

To Deadphish

Wasn't a key element of the Clunkers program was that participating dealers were NOT supposed to raise the price due to the clunker rebate? For that reason, even with all your arguments it is sleazy.

The fact that dealers take advantage of the elderly as easy prey is also sleazy. It was amazing how fast the price came down when a dealer mentioned the add on and i said that was ridiculous and walked away - too bad so many elderly folks are too polite and wont do that - the sleazy dealers know that a reel them in squeez and.....

No excuses for that behaivior. Making a reasonable profit is a good thing scamming on the C4C which was supposed to bring you business and the elderly is just not ethical any way you squeeze it.

 

I sorry but I don't buy what your saying. If that is true dealers would be always losing. You don't say anything about the 2% to 3% hold back or what you make in financing, or the extended warranty...etc.

I have been buying cars and trucks for over 45 years! I even have family that own dealerships (three). I can list thing that go on at the dealers that would blow away a lot of people.

 

Nowhere in the C4C "rules" did it say dealers had to sell the vehicles at MSRP...how many times do posters need to be reminded of free enterprise? Or would you rather have government run dealerships where all cars are priced the same across the board? You can't live in this country and pick and choose where some people have a right to make a profit and others don't just because it suits your personal needs. Move on to the next dealer like you did and don't generalize a segment of people because you think someone treated you unfairly.

Diane's post about dealer profit margins on cars says it all...and she's one of the good ones on here. Freedom of choice is up to you...if you don't like a price...walk like you did. But don't generalize that all/most dealers are sleazy, prey on elderly, etc...not true. I'm not a dealer and I do not work for one but I do run my own business (not auto related) and know that every penny we profit is crucial to the existence of the business...especially right now. If a government program was created to drive people to my business you can bet I would set my prices at the highest I thought I could sell items for...and negotiate from there. I'm not going out of business because I want to be known as a nice guy...profitable pricing and customer care can be achieved at the same time.

Would you prefer to see even more dealerships close which reduces choice and limits buyer options ultimately raising prices due to supply and demand?

 

I'd have to agree with Dianne here. In my personal opinion, there are many very good Toyota dealerships and salesman. Sometimes, I think the negative view points get more attention. Recently, I have purchased two new vehicles from Walser Toyota in Bloomington, Minnesota. They are a very busy dealership. And, they earn their business. I do feel that those "poor" dealerships are the exception to the rule. I have been extremely satisfied with the service with Walser Toyota in Bloomington, Minnesota.

 

Dealerships make a majority of their money on service and used cars, those pay the bills and gain very good return on operation costs. New car sales aren't a losing proposition, like Diane would like us to believe, there is holdback, as has been stated, bonus incentives per vehicle for amount of sales, extended warranty rip offs, almost no cost, high cost packages and financing kickbacks. And thats the truth and fact.

 

Not exactly but your point does bring up a grey area. The clunker program only addressed the vehicle makers. If there was a $1000 customer cash rebate on a vehicle then the vehicle maker had to honor that incentive and then deduct the applicable rebate.

The program never addressed the dealers. The dealers are independent businesses completely separate from the vehicle makers. In fact the dealers didn't have to participate at all if they didn't wish to do so. As independent businesses no one. not the vehicle makers, nor the Feds nor the buyers can specify what the independent dealer can or should charge for his inventory.

So to answer your question, Yes the vehicle maker had to continue to offer any rebate it was offering, Toyota offered 0% financing on all Camrys all through the program. The independent dealers then could charge any price that they thought was right for their market; $1000 under MSRP, MSRP or $1000 over MSRP.

As one who has been beaten to death by elderly buyers....save the tears. Elderly doesn't mean stupid.

 

No-one said you can't or shouldn't make a profit - the rest of the Rant is simply ridiculous. The purpose of the C4C was to benefit dealers and bring you business by providing a consumer incentive - not an extra dealer subsidy - you seem to think that would be fine but forget the consumer. Not the point of the program.

As far as taking advantage and raising prices for folks like the elderly because you can - what can I say to you. Capitalism is selling a good product for a fair price and making a living (as I am sure lots of dealers do) not scamming as much as you can - ohh I forgot guess that is what it has become. Glad you benefited from C4C too bad you have attitude that when someone (or taxpayers) do something to benefit you - you need to screw them over as much as possible instead of taking a good deal.

Yes Dianne and some of the dealers are great - it is unfortunate that too many don't follow the example of the best.