More On OW20 Oil Confusion

I wish you well, and I really hope you have absolutely no warranty claims.

If you can get your dealer to sign an agreement, whereby you agree to take it to the dealer for all service, and the dealer agrees that he will indemnify you for any costs you have that Toyota denies due to use of other than 0W20 motor oil, then have at it. Otherwise, you have only the manufacturer's warranty and direction. The dealer is not the one responsible -- you are. AND, if you knowingly allow the dealer to put in oil other than what is the Toyota requirement, you really are setting yourself up for a disappointment.

In my opinion, it is a few hundred dollars better spent to do the service the way Toyota requires it for maintaining your warranty.

 

As a chemical engineer, I'm not sure where you got that data from

A 0W-xx will absolutely offer better cold start lubrication than a 5W-xx. The SAE J300 test specifies that a 5W-xx will earn a "pass" if the yield stress of 600 Poise is not exceeded at -35 C, although the oil may test "borderline" at -30 C

The 0W-xx must earn a "pass" at -40 C, not exceeding 600 Poise, though it may be borderline at -35 C.

In contrast, most conventional 5W-30 oils will test out at 1,200 Poise - or higher - at -40.

In the EU, both 0W-30 and 0W-40 oils are very popular, and are factory fill for many BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and VW cars. I personally use Mobil 1 European Car Formula 0W-40 in my FJ with excellent results (Good used oil analysis results at 7,500 miles)

Outside of North America, a 5W-20 and especially a 0W-20 will be impossible to find. The only exception is the military, as the MIL-L-46167 engine oil spec for arctic environments is a synthetic, heavy duty 0W-20, commonly known as OEA (Oil, Engine, Arctic)

The reported fuel economy gains are very minor, not even noticed by the average driver, but during testing that 1-2% gain is enough to earn CAFE brownie points.

With my 2004, in the summer of 2006 I had some leftover Esso XD-3 15W-40 after changing the oil in the tractor at my hobby farm. I didn't want to keep a bit over 3 litres until next year, and realized my Prius was coming up on an oil change anyway

So for the summer, I ran the 15W-40 in my Prius. Guess what happened? NOTHING. It ran just fine, the fuel economy averaged over summer was *perhaps* 2 mpg lower, but I was also doing a lot of driving on windy days too. The used oil analysis came back fine

My Prius also had good used oil analysis results with 0W-20. However, even though Toyota recommends a 5W-20/0W-20 in the FJ Cruiser, my FJ did NOT like 0W-20. Not only was there a spike in nitration, but the oil actually thickened in use

To me, its more about oil quality than viscosity. API spec oil is absolute crap, compared to ACEA oils, especially the A3, B3/B4 rated oils

In the end, one must use their own judgment regarding what sort of oil to use. It's apparent a few dealerships are clueless, they probably pump in whatever no-name API crap they have sitting in the tote bin

 

From all that, do I gather you recommend a high quality oil, rather than synthetics?

Until now, I've always just used good oil in my prius.. not sure if the 2010 is really any different other than the viscosity being a different formula.

 

The "service reminder" oil changer sticker they put in my newly purchased Gen III says "5W-30", and I looked under the hood on the oil filler cap and it says 0W-20. I'll be sure to make sure they use 0W-20!

 

AFAIK, every marketed 0W-XX oil is at least a synthetic blend. The European ACEA rated oils, especially A3, are good blends, with many being full PAO synthetics

The problem with oil in North America is the conflict the API presents: they not only determine oil standards, they also represent the oil companies. Big money in frequent oil changes

Under the API, all motor oils are exactly the same. No matter if I buy Billy Joe Bob's 5W-30, or the made in Germany Castrol Syntec 0W-30, they both have the same exact rating from the API

Common sense would tell you something is very amiss with the API oil rating system used in North America. Since it's a bottom feeder lowest common denominator standard, it doesn't really help you that much

The European ACEA system is far different. First difference, is that the member companies are all engine and car companies, oil companies have little representation.

Second difference, the ACEA recognizes differences in quality of oil. Eg: A1 is the lowest rated oil, still much better than any current API rated oil, as the minimum oil change interval is 12 months or 10,000 miles

The dual rated A3, B3/B4 oils are the best oils, they typically are designed for the most severe service and extended oil changes. In the EU, that could mean up to two YEARS or 30,000 miles.

Third difference, is that the car maker can require their own unique standard that exceeds the ACEA ratings. These oils typically carry a dual rating, such as BMW LongLife04 and ACEA A3,B3/B4. Car makers like BMW, Porsche, VW, Mercedes, etc, can and DO have their own requirements for oil viscosity (Depends on expected operating conditions) and service interval.

I had no problem with Mobil 1 0W-20 in my 2004 Prius, even at 10,000 mile oil change intervals. I followed up with used oil analysis, though. But who knows what quality of oil Toyota will refill with, especially considering that for the 2010 Prius owner, the cost of a mandatory 6 month/5,000 mile oil change appears to have doubled

 

The German made 0W-30 Castrol Syntec is what's going in mine. All of you that believe something bad will happen if you don't stick with 0W-20, well just don't drink the cool - aid is all I can tell you.

 

Heard back from the service manager at one of the two closest dealers (about same distance in different directions). Today, there will be no upcharge at all for synthetic. But I only have 1000 miles since I have another car I use more to use up my lease miles. Hope he is still saying that in a couple of months when I need my first change!

 

Wish you well. I stopped by our Parts Dept and they wanted 9.98 USD for a quart! I don't even ask what service wanted for a change. First one is suppose to be "free"... we will see.

Peter

 

Have faith! I've had 3 MB's fom one dealer, 3 Toyota's from one dealer--really no difference in treatment or service levels, both top notch. Have 2 Lexus's from one, too, and they do a great job, maybe a little better on the touchy-feely stuff, however my Toyota dealer adds a few of their hallmarks every year, so I've been really impressed with their focus on customers in sales and service. When I get my first (free)oil change I'll certainly try to remember to ask about the 0/20, just in case old habits die hard in the shop!

 

Where do you get that only 0W-20 is allowed? That's not what I read in the owners manual. What I read allowed for higher viscosities if conditions warrant.

 

It says the 5W-20 is OK if 0W-20 in not available. You also need to switch back to 0W-20 at the next change. That is what the OM says. Plus, the oil filer cap says "0W-20" right on it.

Peter

 

I'd have to pull the book back out, but I believe the last sentence said something that higher viscosity oil may be used if situations allowed or something similar. Now if I lived in Alaska like you do, then I would say 0W-20 is better for you than for me living in South Ga. where it rarely if ever get's below freezing.
I'm surprised if Toyota is saying that one viscosity of oil works no matter what the climate is, just doesn't pass the common sense test.

 

It's not about climate or even what is best for the engine. It's about Toyota meeting the CAFE fleet mileage standard.

 

Were do you get used oil analysis and how much does it cost?

I think the title pretty much covers it.
Thanks

 

If your asking about used oil analysis, most use this lab, but there are many
Blackstone Labs

 

Interesting observation/conclusion.

What oil is required by Toyota for use in 2010s sold in Japan, Europe, etc.?

 

I went to the BP site in the UK, and used their lubricant adviser. They don't have a listing for 2010 models yet, but for the GenII their primary recommendation is Castrol Edge 0W-30

Engine Oil and Lubricants Castrol UK - Castrol EDGE 0W-30

This oil meets the severe service, and extended drain requirements of the EU. However, BP recommends a 12 month or 10,000 mile oil change in the Prius

Alternate recommendations are a variety of 10W-40, 0W-40, 15W-40 etc oils

 

I agree 100%!!!!!! Absolutely.

:flock:

 

OK. But what is the basis for the statement? You may be entirely true -- I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment. I am just curious whether Toyota requires different oils elsewhere.