More On OW20 Oil Confusion

Looks like you're right. Perhaps I just overreacted.

 

1 What's so difficult about making sure that 0W-20 synthetic oil is used and nothing else? I would make sure that when you bring in your 2010 Prius for service you specify, require and MAKE DAMN sure they use 0W-20 synthetic oil.

2 I admire those that have priced Mobil1 0W-20 synthetic oil from "retail" outlets and the discussion of the markup from the dealer. But, I have no inclination, will or knowledge of how to change the oil (let alone the oil filter) in ANY vehicle, let alone my Prius. I can barely put in washer fluid when needed. So please, spare us the "I can change the oil and filter in under $30 discussion". I am sure you can...but I don't intend on doing it.

3 I wouldn't be so sure about using an STP oil filter on my Prius. Not that I know anything about non-OEM filters, but I wouldn't use one. That's why my I have a dealer to do that stuff.

4 I paid $300 for a maintenance package from my dealer. With it I got coupons for eight oil changes and four tire rotations at no additional charge, plus coupons for 50% off other services that should take me to my 3 year/36,000 mile limit. At about $70 a pop for just one oil change, I came out okay.

 

1 What's so difficult about making sure that 0W-20 synthetic oil is used and nothing else? I would make sure that when you bring in your 2010 Prius for service you specify, require and MAKE DAMN sure they use 0W-20 synthetic oil.

2 I admire those that have priced Mobil1 0W-20 synthetic oil from "retail" outlets and the discussion of the markup from the dealer. But, I have no inclination, will or knowledge of how to change the oil (let alone the oil filter) in ANY vehicle, let alone my Prius. I can barely put in washer fluid when needed. So please, spare us the "I can change the oil and filter in under $30 discussion". I am sure you can...but I don't intend on doing it.

3 I wouldn't be so sure about using an STP oil filter on my Prius. Not that I know anything about non-OEM filters, but I wouldn't use one. That's why my I have a dealer to do that stuff.

4 I paid $300 for a maintenance package from my dealer. With it I got coupons for eight oil changes and four tire rotations at no additional charge, plus coupons for 50% off other services that should take me to my 3 year/36,000 mile limit. At about $70 a pop for just one oil change, I came out okay.

 

You will not find a Mobil 1 filter for the 2010 Prius for now. I Looked for it, but the new 2010 Prius uses a canister type filter, only available at Toyota Dealer. If anyone finds a Mobil 1 filter, I want a few.

 

I also am not "doing my own" so have been checking around the Portland area. I stopped by the two closest dealers for other reasons (purchased in ID) and both told me not to waste my money on the synthetic (one was service dept. manager). Both dealers have sold plenty of 2010s.

What has been interesting is how expensive the Toyota dealers around here are a basic oil change. Their specials are $35 or $50 with tire rotation. So can't wait to hear the other price when they figure it out. One of the T dealers I stopped by at is owned by the same company as my Honda dealer which has oil change specials for $27 - guess they feel T gets a premium. Back to which to use - guess I have time to decide since I have less than 1000 miles - and by time I need it perhaps the dealers will be more up to speed.

 

Hi Gmalis1, Just because you ask to be spared the discussion about DIY oil changes, don't expect it to happen. It's a valid discussion.

I gave a lot of thought to responding to your post. There are a lot of reasons to not respond. But, I read the threads about oil & oil changes because I might learn information that is useful when dealing with the mechanic, either at a dealership or an independent shop. The more informed I am, then I am better able to protect my investment.

I don't want to change my own oil either. I've done it in for past vehicles and I will do it once on the Prius, but I choose not to change my own oil because it's cost effective to take my cars to someone else. They do it faster, they dispose of the used oil (they claim in an environmentally friendly way), and I can spend my time in ways more valuable to me.

I'll change my oil once because I expect my mileage will be between recommended changes when I start out for a 3,000 mile trip to the West Coast. On this fairly new engine, I want the added protection of fresh, clean oil for a trip across the Rocky Mountains and I will know that the oil in my engine is the recommended oil; no questions.

-- With the greatest respect, TK

 

There are a couple of ways for you to make certain the oil used is 0W20. One is to ask the dealer to see the quart containers being used. The other is to bring the oil with you and hand it to the dealer.

Buying Mobil 1 (or some other 0W20 oil) does not necessarily mean the buyer intends a DIY oil change. Most people will do it that way, but a number of folks will take the oil to the dealer. The cost of the oil change will be lowered (ever so slightly) because the dealer will not be using its bulk oil (or quarts of Toyota 0W20). You'll need to do the math to find out whether it is cost-beneficial to you.

I have no idea whether the OEM oil filter is a higher (or lower) grade than an STP filter. Frankly, at intervals of just 5,000 miles with synthetic oils, I don't know that the filter is going to make that much of a difference. Not every OEM article on your Prius is top grade.

This whole thing is a work-in-progress as far as I can tell. I've already had my 5,000 mile oil change and tire rotation, and I had it done at the dealer's shop. I was charged just $41.95 for the "5,000 service." I know the oil was the Toyota 0W20, because it was in the quart containers. I also know that the next change is going to be more expensive, because the dealer's computer system is going to be updated to account for the price difference. I just don't know the amount of that price difference!

 

It's not a recommendation it' a requirement!!!!

I personally as a retired mechanical engineer in the engine business think they the government and car makers are Scr**ing us in engine wear wise:juggle: in order to meet MPG targets.

I personally think 5-20w or 0-30w would be much better for engine life and the 1mpg or so MPG hit would be a minor price to pay from the customer standpoint as it relates to engine wear and engine life expectancy!!!

I personally perfer a synthetic blend, especially when we are told we have to change the oil every 5000 miles or 6 months. Thats just plain ludicrous, you are throwing away good synthetic that you are paying a premium for.

Finally while I am on a rant, why the H**l do the dealers charge these huge premiums for the 0-20w syn, I spoke to my dealer and he said the 0-20w was $ 8 a qt, so if the regular stuff is lets say $ 2.60 a qt then the difference is only $6 a quart for 5 quarts. So the premium should only be $27.60 max, not this $70 oil change BS. when a regular change is $24.95

Some dealers aren't giving you credit for thr std oil thay didn't use and are just tacking on the whole price of the premium stuff at $40.

 

It says "0 - 20W" right on the oil cover where you put in the oil... hard for a dealer to argue with that!

 

I didn't think there was any difference between 0W- and 5W- oils except that the 0 would flow more easily at subzero temps.

I don't really know the other end of it: -20 vs. -30.

How is it that either 5W20 or 0W30 would be better for the Prius (or any car) than 0W20?

 

My opinion and experience from my work in engine R&D lab, but I believe the auto makers are out to achieve the absolute best MPG. Well 0 weight oil is the ability to flow at start I agree and the most wear occurs at start. Lubricity on the cold end 0W is not as good as in a 5W oil, the same thing at the upper number lubricating ability at higher temps, 30w oil will hold up better under higher operating temps, so again the 20w will provide less resistance , less sticky and therefore it will offer improved fuel economy.

Hey look at a Mobil 1 0-20w bottle, it claims the lubricating ability of a 5-20w oil only in a 0-20w grade, why do you think they say that. They know the lighter weight oils are a trade off, 5-20w is really better then 0-20w.
If you feel inclined do the finger test, a drop of oil in different weights between your fingers. 0w will not be as slippery , actually it's not just slippery it's a combination of sticky and slippery.

Actually 5-30w would be better yet. however since they say 0-20w I am going to use Mobil 1 energy saving 0-20w. in my 07 Prius I am using 5-20w Castrol Syn Blend. Not using the full synthetic because of the required 5000 mile 6 month change interval. In my Porsche Cayenne S I used Mobil 1 0-40w Syn European Formula.

Anyway that's my take.

 

Yes, this is the other issue unique to prius. You may be at a pretty good speed already on battery alone when the engine kicks in "even in the morning just starting out", especially pulling out into traffic from a stop.
Instant torque on the ICE after not being used needs an oil that will easily distribute as fast as it can.

The engineers have the synergy technology "of kicking on the ICE on and off as needed" down pretty good now.
I"m sure they try to have the ICE revolve and be adequately lubricated before real torque is applied.
But as you know, when you stomp on the gas or even pull out into traffic after sitting at an intersection or light, this all happens in milliseconds.

In light of the sophistication of the technology involved and knowing the engineers know exactly what tolerances they have factored in based on a given oil viscosity, I wouldn't cheat on oil but use what is specified... and like the manual says, if you do have to cheat in a pinch, let it be very short term and not the norm.

 

It seems to me that this subject is getting a bit blown out of proportion. If the requirement is for 0W-20 oil, why fool around with something else, when the cost difference is minimal?

I recently had my oil/filter service performed. The dealer had a web special for $28.88. The up-charge for 0W-20 was $16.40 ($6.66/quart for 0W-20 vs. $3.38 for their "standard" oil). Assuming you do it twice a year, that's $33 extra per year for 0W-20.

 

I agree.. there is wisdom in being cheap in some cases and foolish in others.

When buying a car.. don't lose the deal for 200.00 bucks of difference you can't agree on if its the car you want.

When buying a house, don't walk away from your dream home when you are within 3K of the price.

And when you change your oil.. if your gonna go to the trouble to change it in the first place, it might was well be right and cost another $16.40....

0 - 20 is only expensive right now because its not common on the shelves.. the price should drop.

 

The price for the Toyota 0W-20 has dropped recently. I bought an extra quart after I got my Prius and it was $7.76 list. Now it's $6.66 list.

 

Yea, I wouldn't buy a large stock of it now, unless you think you can't find it easily in your town.

 

Your situation sounds quite reasonable but 1) I drive more than 10,000 miles a year and our cost here is $70 to $75 not $46 . Thus, for me if I drive 15,000 miles a year, thats three oil changes. If I pay the $35 upcharge on 19 oil changes over the life of the car, its $665 ($35+ $35 or $40 at all our dealers).

2) I plan to keep it 99,000 miles (hence 19) and then sell it while under Extended Warranty (yes the one I paid $1,055 for as discussed in other treads : ).

3) I only have 1,000 miles so don't need to decide yet (will hide and watch to see if Toyota changes its directive to service depts). But if things stay as is, and my local Toyota dealer says that a regular oil change is fine, I am going to pass on Synthetic and save the $665 because of the EW.

The dealer will be on record as telling me to do a "regular oil change" and then it’s not my problem if the engine blows up (have another auto). Toyota (and/or the dealer) will be contractually obligated to give me a new one, etc., under my EW (0 ded) since I have used the dealer to provide all recommended servicing. PS this means my EW (a/k/a dumb, idiot, etc. purchase according to several members in other threads : ) would have a net cost of $390.

 

Well I live in the south and I can tell you something about this that no one has mentioned. There are a significant number of people down this way that wil never buy oil or anything else that is priced at 666.:crazy: