Cash4Clunkers main website update

I do appreciate your experience with medicaid but this is different. Yes there's a lot of money hanging out there but that's because the program was new on 7-27 and as of that date no one had any idea how to make it work. For the most part the rules were in place but there's always the details.

Then the deluge hit. Simply entering the data and scanning all the relevant documents for each order takes a lot of time. OK that's part of the program. What no one foresaw was the tsunami of buyers that would arrive all at the same time. On the 31st 1st and 2nd every store in the country was inundated. Just to gather the papers together in order to submit them to the DOT took time...huge gobs of time because there was so many of these orders.

Finally after gathering all the docs....the data could be submitted and the docs scanned in to the DOT office. Then the DOT was buried. We're getting paid but a good portion of the delay is due to US.... Just handling the sheer volume of paper is daunting.

If all i's and t's are not dotted and crossed then it's our responsibility as far as the DOT is concerned. We will get paid when we submit everything in good order. Now whether that payment can be tracked other than on a FIFO basis is another issue. A small issue for the accounting types.

 

The dealer said originally they traded for that vehicle and it would arrive in a couple of hours, the next day etc. Finally a week later they told me that the vehicle listed on the agreement was sold out from under them and there were no other cars available. I checked the local dealers and until Friday believed this to be true. So yes, they have my clunker, my money, and I have a sales agreement with a vehicle that I don't have and will never have. I don't know how hard they are looking for one for me (I call every other day or so) If they had told me of the problem the next day 8/1 I probably could have found another car at another dealer, however, they didn't and inventory disappeared. by the way, they didn't provide a copy of the signed over clunker title and the sales agreement reflects just the price less the clunker - no mention of the clunker. I haven't wanted to pull the deal because I don't think the inventory has been there and I don't want to miss out on C4Cif they have submitted paperwork or I just can't find the car again. So yes, I have a purchase agreement with a VIN and no car - it has now been two weeks.

 

Just out of curiosity (and let me know if I'm way off base here).... I've read that NADA lobbied for C4C for months, so they they must have had a hand in drafting the regs. Why didn't they make sure their member dealerships had all the info they needed by the time the law was on the books? From what I've been able to deduce, if I were an NADA member, I'd be ticked at them! That's the kind of thing trade associations are supposed to do.

Again, this is just my perception, so I don't want to unfairly slam NADA. I'd be curious to hear what the dealers have to say about this.

 

Post the name of the dealer. I believe once you have a VIN-specific deal, the car is yours. If they've taken delivery of your clunker, it is wholly their problem. Dealers are used to customers knuckling under...Let's apply some pressure here at Priuschat

 

Here's my free advice (so take it for what it's worth) based on my recent C4C experience:

Go to the dealer first thing tomorrow, and find out if they already submitted for reimbursement. If they did, they certified, under penalty of LAW, that they had the new vehicle to sell to you. It was only recently that the law was amended to permit C4C deals on new vehicles on order. If they already submitted, you are locked out of the system and can't participate in the program with another dealer. They need to find you a car that meets the specs of the car on which you had a purchase agreement. They will have to figure it out how to get reimbursed by the government - their problem, not yours. They need to do it now, not later. If they continue to stall, let them know you'll be reporting them to the US DOT Office of the Inspector General (number is on the cars.gov website), your state attorney general, the Better Business Bureau, and you will be consulting with your attorney. (Tell them that whether you have one or not.) While they're looking for a new car for you, they should provide you with a loaner at no cost to you (if they haven't already).

If they have not yet submitted for reimbursement, have them produce the form that you signed that they needed to submit, and watch them shred it. It's no longer valid. Ask for your deposit back and walk away from the deal. Try to find a new dealership that's willing to play by the rules.

The dealers that are playing these games have compromised the consumer's protections that are built into the C4C law for their own protection. To the dealers here on Priuschat, sorry, but that torques me off. Play by the rules, or don't play. Period.

 

Unfortunately that's bad luck that the vehicle that they wanted to get for you was sold out from underneath them/you by another dealer. That very same thing happened to me on a new Prius but not a C4C situation.. That's part of the business unfortunately.

Here's the reality. Your dealer wants to sell you a car. They want to deliver it to you as quickly as possible. That's how they make their money. It does them no good to hold up and delay anything. If however they are a manana-type of store then you might want to just go to them and get your money back and start all over again at square one.

However there simply are not that many Prius' available anywhere in the US. Most dealers are not at all interested in trading.

What is certain is that your dealer cannot submit your application to the DOT to get you approved....the VIN of the new Prius that they thought was going to be yours is now being driven by a different owner. They will have to do the paperwork all over again with then new VIN eventually. Then they will be reimbursed.

 

Yes you're right on all counts. However no one at any level imagined the deluge of buyers arriving at stores all over the country in the first week. Not Toyota; Not NADA; Not any dealer; Not any politician....no one. It's scramble time.

 

C'mon be serious. The VIN shown on the contract never arrived at TangaRed's selling dealer. The other dealer sold it first. Bad luck...it happens all the time. As of this time there is no agreement at all between any parties.

TangaRed's dealer now has to find a new vehicle in order to complete his end of the agreement. I presume that he's trying to do just that because that's how dealers make money.

 

They haven't changed the "drivable condition" requirement of the clunker have they?
I saw a local TV commercial, during the NASCAR race, for a local Ford dealer that wanted you to "Push, Pull, or Drag it in" and went on to say they would "come 'n get it" for you if you couldn't do that.
In fact, a similar commercial video is on their website:
http://www.westwayford.com
Top right corner.

 

The NY State attorney general is cracking down on deceptive C4C ads in that state - in my opinion, that ad in the link you posted is abslolutely deceptive. There has been no change in the drivability requirement to my knowledge. Call the TX AG's office or send them the link.

 

The first paragraph is balanced and accurate.

The last two are just wrong. Nothing untoward seems to have happened here except that TangaRed got inadvertently whipsawed by a different dealer that had no responsibility to him. There were no games being played as far as we know. It's very likely that TangaRed's dealer has not submitted anything simply because it never had possession of the new Prius in question.

Now it's simply a matter of whether TangaRed wants to continue with this dealer or start from scratch all over again at another location. Again this happens all the time when vehicles are being DX'd.

 

I would still recommend that TangaRed ask to have the purchaser/dealer certifications form destroyed - no harm there, it's no good to anyone anyway. That protects TangaRed from being locked out of the program. Otherwise, I agree it's then up to TangaRed whether he or she wants to do another deal with the same dealer or walk. From the sounds of it, this dealer hasn't exactly been keeping TangaRed in the loop or offering any solutions - based on that, I'd walk.

I assume as a dealer, you're doing everything by the book. Unfortunately, in my experience, not one of the 5 Toyota dealers within an hour drive of my house was. Their "bending" of the rules of the program was to reduce their risk. I stated an opinion that doing so compromised the consumer. You're free, of course, to state your opinion that you disagree. The dealer with whom I worked was in no rush to comply with the law, until I pointed out, literally, the sections of the Federal rule that were being violated. If I hadn't, who knows how long they might have strung me along. The program could have run out of money, they could have renegged on the deal, and I would have been out of luck. That's the source of my frustration.

I will say that since I educated my dealer, they have been very accommodating. But why did I, a guy off the street who knows next to nothing about the business, have to educate them? (That's rhetorical question, no need to answer.)

 

This is up on the Cars.gov website and it states that as long as the car is in the "pipeline" you can do the deal and the dealer can get the rebate.

"New CARS Guidance
In response to overwhelming interest in the CARS program, NHTSA has clarified that consumers who want to purchase new vehicles not yet on dealer lots can still be eligible for the CARS program. Dealers and consumers who have reached a valid purchase and sale agreement on a vehicle already in the production pipeline will be able to work with the manufacturer to receive the documentation needed to qualify for the program."

 

Here is the problem with that Ratpack. I can submit my paperwork to the NHTSA without having a title. But, then I have to email a copy of the new car title to ANOTHER division and pray they put the two together. I can't even get reimbursed on the ones that are packaged correctly, have all I's dotted and T's crossed, and sent electronically with a confirmation of them receiving it. How in the hell am I going to get reimbursed on one that requires me to send half the inof to one place and half to another, totally seperate office?

Our dealer is not currently doing that. If we have the vehicle in stock, fine. If it is in the pipeline, we are clearly writing on the purchase agreement "Subject to money being available for the CARS program at time of delivery, not purchase." If the consumer doesn't agree to that, that is their choice. I completely understand if they want to go to another store. If I have the only one around, then they have a choice to make.. either go by my rules are switch cars. Sounds harsh, but I need to protect my dealership and the consumer at the same time.

 

I have the similar situation. I went to the dealer on 7/28 and signed papers and paid for a Prius II (with Vin #). I waited for a few hours and the dealer told me to come back the next day to pick up the new car (trade from another dealer). The next day, they told me the car will be there on 7/30 morning. However, 7/30 noon, they call me that the car was sold by the other dealer. I was very upset and they said they will lower my price about $200. However, on the evening of 7/30 when I learn that the C4C money is running out. (no extra 2 billion yet) I immediately went back to the dealer in person and try to find whatever is available. There was no Prius II, only III and above. I picked the black III with no package and they were willing to sale at invoice to me. While I was with the finance guy to rewrite the paper again, then we found out that the car was sold. So I end up getting the silver III with solar/Nav package. I got a good price, more than $1800 under MSRP, about $500 over invoice. I am happy with this car even it is more than what I planned to spend.

 

I had similar problems with my first attempt to get a II under the first C4C funding. It was sold out from under me and then there were none to find anywhere. I had 4-5 dealers working to find one for me - I will pay whatever, just find one for the C4C. I was communicating with them everyday, sometimes several times a day. Finally the original dealer found the exact match for what I wanted and specially held it for me.

What worked.... priuschat! Some may have seen my original story and complaint / rant about this dealer here (I have since retracted). When the general manager called to say they found my car, he mentioned seeing my posts here and politely asked if I would retract or update my story to show them resolving the issue in good faith. The fact is, they went over and above to resolve it, treated me wonderfully even though I was complaining, and definitely felt the bad word of mouth I started here was worth correcting. Thanks priuschat!

I have never seen such a tough supply / demand environment around a product. One day, you will be able to walk in, get any color package you want, and deal near invoice - that sure is not today's situation with the Prius.

 

Thanks, My dealer is Fairfield Toyota - I did get a Pm recomending them. Funny. They were quite oK until the problems started. Then, no returned calls from the salesman or even the sales manager - although if I call a few times I can usually get the manager. I'm just not sure they are looking hard. My husband will stop by the dealer on his way home tomorrow and track down the sales guy and see if he is checking- bugging the person who looks for and tracks cars daily - this is what the sales manager said he should be doing, but I have no way of knowing this is happening because I'm being ignored.

They had a red IV but they didn't offer me any great deal. I did call to look at expanding the search to a III with or without Nav. I've seen a couple on another dealers inventory but haven't received a reply regarding if they are still there. I would much rather finish with this dealer but I just can't tell if they are following through on anything.

 

Thanks Jabber. Sure I understand the dealers point of view. The logistics of submission and reimbursement with the government appears to be a mess. I view the info coming out of the Cars.gov website with a grain of salt. However it is the official line. Therefore it's what we have to go by. Not all dealers will offer the same service or deals and customers just have to make decisions accordingly.

 

Not sure which of the many threads to add this in, so I figured I'd put it here...

Nightly Business did another story on C4C on 8/17/09. Transcript at Nightly Business Report . Cash For Clunkers Is Paying Off But When Will Uncle Sam? | PBS. If you want to watch the actual video, see Nightly Business Report . Video | PBS.

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