Toyota has plans to offer Prius 2010 Lithium battery upgrade ??

I would not invest any money on the Chevy Volt, because of the doubts and criticism around the project and the poor reliability of the GM brand. The Nissan Leaf, for your needs, is definitively worth waiting, but remember that it is at least 1 year away from arriving in the dealerships, but most likely, the wait is even longer (I'm thinking 18 months is more realistic).

 

I'm a first time and new owner of a Prius 2010. The limited range is only when you use battery only and I can think of no good reason to select that. You've got a gas engine and an electric engine and the Prius automatically uses either or both and keeps the battery charged. Heck you're even charging the battery when you brake. In a regular car, braking is throwing away energy.

BTW, the volt that is coming out requires it to be plugged into a power socket when not being used to charge the battery, the Prius does not. The 250mpg they are bragging about goes down if you take long trips between charges since the battery is depleted and you go on gas exclusively. No matter the length of the trip, the Prius is using both. If you are away from home, how easy will it be to charge the battery in the volt? Better carry a long extension cord

I guess I don't understand why the range of the Prius is not good enough for you. It's rated at 48-50mpg and the gas tank holds (I forget exactly) over 10 gallons. That's the equivalent of a 25 gallon tank in a gas guzzler.

 

Because, according to the OP needs (short distance commute, in-town drives only), the Leaf will mean INFINITE MPG and ZERO emissions... So, the Leaf is a no-brainer for his needs, but the question is: does it worth the wait?

 

Yes, The Prius EV mode isn't designed or intended to make The Prius a full time electric vehicle, it's designed to allow it to be an electric vehicle for a short period with very specific parameters applied.

Prius is a hybrid. I think you need to decide what you want. If you want a tangibly utilizable around the city commuter that runs on full electric then the vehicle you want is probably around the corner in the form of The Leaf or The Volt. A lithium battery, plug in Prius is also probably closer than Toyota is admitting, not wanting to hurt current sales.

But you are just kind of trapped. Sounds like the vehicle you really want, is just about to be produced, we might be a year, 2 or 3 away from really having options.

It's an interesting time for "alternative" automobiles. Things seem to be changing rapidly and I believe we are in a time frame where everything is in flux.

What I think for you immediately is you need to decide whether you want a Hybrid immediately, an automobile with a decade of support and refinement, OR you are dedicated to full electric, inwhich case there is a wait, and you will be riding the first generation.

As far as your original question about offering a 2010 Lithium Battery Upgrade? I honestly don't know. I would HIGHLY doubt it. The 2010 is selling very well. Why would Toyota publicly admit that they were going to offer an "upgrade" to Lithium. It would be like telling everyone buying or who has bought a 2010 that the product they just bought was already obsolete. Soon, eventually Lithium batteries will probably become the standard, but when your hybrid product line runs on Nickel Metal Hydride, and you are already having trouble meeting demand with a production chain you've built for a decade, you probably aren't going to announce plans to change every new Prius you have just sold.

If Toyota EVER offers a lithium battery upgrade possibility for The Prius it will just happen, and I think it would happen AFTER Lithium becomes the standard, not before.

 

jangell2, be aware that braking is still a waste of energy, just not of all the energy, as some of it (30%?) makes it back to the battery during regen braking. All of the energy is lost when braking under 7 mph and in emergency stops, since compression braking is used.

Also, Prius is a gas car that gets really great mileage due to its HSD and battery. OP is looking for a largely grid-charged solution. I don't think the Prius is designed for that. OP, if you buy a Prius, you won't be happy or have the best mpg if you regularly run in EV MODE. It's range is just too short as an EV. You might do well to consider a Gen II Prius plus a PHEV conversion, but even then you'll need to use the ICE more than in a Volt (or in a BEV, which has no ICE).

 

A) Do you have a place to "plug in" where you live to charge up your electric car?
B) If you don't own your place (let's say you are living in an apartment), do you have permission to plug in?
C) Will you be moving such that you might move into a place where you CAN'T plug in?
D) Do you drive on roads that have a speed limit < 35 mph (55 kph)?
E) For those final 10% trips, do you have alternate transportation with greater range?

You might consider a Zenn.

ZENN Motor Company

Cost ~ $10k

http://www.zenncars.com/media/documents/PCMagazine.pdf

Or a Zap car around 12K

http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-cars/xebra-sedan



Otherwise, you likely would want to wait a bit. The fuel mileage you'd have with the Prius with such short trips would be disappointing (although, likely better than what you would otherwise get with most passenger cars).

 

Yes I am aware of that, though did not know the figures. They guy who invents a system to recover all the energy from braking (or any other function that loses energy) and makes it economically feasible will be a very rich man.

I also didn't catch that the OP wanted all electric. I wasn't thinking enough outside my own box. I'm too thrilled with going from 15mpg (or less) to 48-50

 

Well, I was trying to hold out for a PHEV but with the age and mileage of our current cars I figured I just couldn't wait for an 'unknown' amount of time. I went for a 2010 Prius and very glad I did!

I, still to this date, have a $500 deposit down at the local Toyota dealer waiting for the first plug-in to come along. But I figure I'll just trade this one in when the PHEVs become widely available to the public.

In the mean time, I'm so digging my first Prius and glad we went for it! Why put it off?

radio

 

It really sounds like a straight EV would be best for you. Many here with short trips around town (<3 miles) are getting rather poor performance from their new Prius due to what you mentioned; engine warm up. Over longer distances, this averages out but you won't get that. I would (IMO) wait for the Leaf assuming you will have plug-in at each end of your trip. The Volt is likely to be too expensive.
Peter

 

I have not heard a word about when a plug-in version of the Prius might be available. It could be several years away, if ever. Of course you could have one right now if are willing to spend as high as $15,000 to have an after-market company do a conversion for you - thus voiding your Prius warranty.

On the other hand the Chevy Volt is still not being produced, may not become available for several more years, and will cost more than $40,000 unless GM lowers the cost and sells them at a considerable loss.

My solution: use my Zenn all-electric car for short errands on city streets and use my Prius for everything else.

 

When I first read your post I missed the point that you wanted to go electric as much as possible, so I see the points that have been made since then.

I was also not aware that the Volt could charge the battery, that would make it more practical for longer, away from home trips. Of course the volt is going to cost around $40K so even if it were available today, I would have chosen the Prius.

I hope that in the near future, cars with the Volt's mpg can be made more economical.

 

I don't believe in buying the first generation of anything, especially electronics. Look at the improvements made from the first generation Prius to now. Gen I had AC that would shut off in EV mode. In Florida that would be rough. Also, we are talking about GM. I'd put more faith on the Nissan - although not by much. I had a bad experience with an Altima that the company would not help with - which is why I ordered my Prius. Let them work the bugs out first.

 

At 3 km to work, walking or bike riding is possible the best way to go

 

Due to the law of kinetic energy e=½mv², the energy you loose by not regeneratively braking below 7 mph is very small, about 1/15 of the energy extracted from the deceleration from 30 mph down to 7 mph.

I figured the roundtrip efficiency of regenerative braking would be closer to 50%, I remember once having read about measurements coming close to that same figure: 50%. Have you got any reference for that 30% figure of yours?

Emergency stops are exceptional (I hope!!!), so that will not really impact the usefulness of regenerative braking in day-to-day usage.

 

Have you thought of getting a slightly used Gen II Prius and then adding a Hymotion kit? You could probably have a pretty loaded nearly new PHEV for 30K or so. With an EV mode switch, you would be able to go 15 - 20 miles in all EV mode on each charge. I have a 2008 Prius with this setup and drive around my town using no gas.

 

I'm not sure where you got this idea...but I have a Gen I, Gen II and Gen III. I can tell you that the Gen I does not shut off the A/C when you are in EV mode...technically, there isn't even an EV mode at all. There is what some call stealth mode where, with light pedal or a downhill slope, you can be running on electric only, just like with the Gen II and Gen III. But the A/C and all accessories stay on.

There is actually very little difference in how the hybrid drive works. Most of the improvements have to do with more efficiently doing the cold-start warm-up cycle from a driver's perspective. From an engineering perspective Toyota has made the components smaller, cheaper to build and providing more power. And they've made the battery more compact at about the same power rating.

I got my Gen I the first month they were sold. There were 4 or 5 minor recalls to bring it in on the next (paid for) maintenance to fix something that might be a problem. The most problem free car I ever owned. Zero maintenance dollars except for scheduled maintenance, two flat tires and one set of new tires. My Gen II also has had zero maintenance, except scheduled maintenance and one set of tires.

3PriusMike

 

There are no such known plans. There have been hints that there will be a Prius Plug-in in a year os so, but that it will be limited to fleet sales.

But assume you were Toyota and you did have a PHEV ready for sale. Would you offer to upgrade all the 2010 models? No, because your battery supply would be limited and you'd rather sell an entire car with each Li-ion battery because this would give you more profit.

3PriusMike

 

Isn't the plug-in Prius is more than a battery upgrade? I would think it needs at least electric heating. More powerful electronics? Better cooling of MG2? More powerful MG2?