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Engine of the Year Awards 2009

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by jprates, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. jprates

    jprates https://ecomove.pt

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    The results for this year Engine of the Year Awards should be subjected to severe auditing from independent sources.

    I will only name 1 category where the results are simply outrageous to an extent far beyond comprehension: The Green Engine award.

    The jury had several cars to choose from, and two nominees were the VW TSI and the new Prius 3G (3rd generation).

    Having:

    The VW with 174 hp, 6.2 L/100 km and 144 g/km CO2;
    The Toyota with 136 hp, 3.9 L/100 km and 89 g/km CO2

    The jury says the car which has:

    +30% horsepower, 63% more fuel consumption, 62% more CO2 emissions

    is the greenest car... yeah... right... is this for real!?!?!

    The general public demands a general inquiry to this Jury votes right now!

    This is a shameful representation of how strong lobbies can go.
    I feel sick to the stomach reading this year's awards.

    Shame on the jury.:mad:
     
    #1 jprates, Aug 8, 2009
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  2. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    #2 usbseawolf2000, Aug 8, 2009
  3. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Can I play devils advocate?

    I am ignorant in regards to the criteria used in evaluation of the engines. Let me admit this upfront.

    But stepping outside of the "World of Prius" I wonder if the results are in some part arrived at because of this.

    If you are evaluating "Engines" and not entire vehicles, then you could argue that the VW ENGINE represents a better engine (From a Green Standpoint) . It's not Hybrid Synergy Drive that is being evaluated, it's only Engine vs. Engine.

    I'm NOT saying I agree with the results, I'm just offering that as a reason it seems a car that is clearly "Greener" could lose to an car that is clearly not as "Green".

    Or am I totally wrong, and they do indeed evaluate the entire HSD system as being "The Engine"?
     
    #3 The Electric Me, Aug 8, 2009
  4. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    They evaluate hybrid powertrain instead of just the combustion engine. This is from 2008 Green Engine of the Year.

    INTERNATIONAL ENGINE OF THE YEAR 2008
     
    #4 usbseawolf2000, Aug 8, 2009
  5. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Without knowing the exact criteria applied, I'm still not sure. I mean this is last years release and is it sounds like the entire award was changed from "Best Fuel Economy" to "Green Engine of The Year", which indeed did change and expand criteria.

    I mean do we have any confirmation on the criteria applied this year? It does say it was the eighth trophy in 5 years won for the powertrain but that doesn't necessarily mean the "Green Engine" award is including the entire powertrain.

    It almost seems logical to me that it would HAVE to be an engine vs. engine battle for the Volkswagen to win. If indeed you are judging entire vehicle vs entire vehicle you'd be hard pressed to say The Volkswagen is greener, because it clearly it is not.

    Again, I'm playing devils advocate. I just am suspicious and would like to know exactly what criteria the "jury" was applying before I fault the jury for a decision. This actually happens in the legal world a lot...Jury's will reach a decision, based on the law as it is presented and applies to the case, people will hear the results and disagree with the verdict, but not know the criteria the jury was forced to apply, and they jump to the conclusion that the jury was made up of idiots. Well OK. sometimes...but most of the time, people just don't see the big picture.

    Again, I'm just suspicious and curious because if you apply this criteria to the competition IE: "an engine must have been designed with fuel economy as a priority and feature technology to help cut emissions."

    Notice it doesn't say a "powertrain", then you could concievably conclude that the VW engine deserves to win.
     
    #5 The Electric Me, Aug 8, 2009
  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Yup, point taken.
     
    #6 usbseawolf2000, Aug 8, 2009
  7. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    judging on stand alone merits only, its not difficult to see how the VW wins. but sorry, it still does not wash with me.

    the "Green Engine" award should go towards the engine that most promotes a green movement and i dont see how any 100% ICE vehicle could win unless it significantly reduced emissions, raw materials used, more efficient manufacturing processes to build said engine, and most importantly, a reduced output per passenger mile traveled.
     
    #7 DaveinOlyWA, Aug 8, 2009
  8. jprates

    jprates https://ecomove.pt

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    I don't believe that should be the criteria for the "Green Engine" award, and it sure has not been in the past like others have said.

    But even if you go that way, I don't have the slightest doubt that the BSFC (specific fuel efficiency) of the Prius 3G is far greater than on the TSI engine. The Prius ICE generates 1 kWh of work with only 220 g of fuel.

    So, all in all, no matter what perspective you use to look at it, Toyota was robbed big time IMO.
     
    #8 jprates, Aug 8, 2009
  9. jprates

    jprates https://ecomove.pt

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    Absolutely true!

    One of the things that I find unacceptable is that the TSI engine puts out 144 g/km of CO2 when driving easy (the standard EU combined test cycle).

    That engine when driven to take those 174 bhp out of the pack will go well above 200 g/km for sure!

    At a time when the EU Comission is trying to convince the automotive industry to build cars at or bellow the 120 g/km CO2 or suffer taxes, I find it incredible that someone can give a "Green Engine" award to a 144 g/km CO2 car!

    It's totally unacceptable and unbelievable!
     
    #9 jprates, Aug 8, 2009
  10. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Well, this is the award for 2009. The new Prius is 2010 model year. That doesn't explain why Prius with 1.8 liter displacement won the 1.4 - 1.8 liter category.
     
    #10 usbseawolf2000, Aug 8, 2009
  11. jprates

    jprates https://ecomove.pt

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    Calling 2010 to the Prius 3G is an American thing.
    There is nothing about the Prius 3G that has anything to do with 2010.

    The rules for this prize are here:
    International Engine of the Year Awards 2009

    They all state clearly this much:

    "an engine must have been housed in a passenger car that was on sale in more than one country as of 17 June 2009."

    The Prius 3G was on sale on both Japan and USA by 17 June 2009.

    Who said it won? For the 1.4-1.8 category the winner was the BMW/PSA 1.6 engine.

    The Prius endured the 2nd place there, unbelievable...
     
    #11 jprates, Aug 8, 2009
  12. jprates

    jprates https://ecomove.pt

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    OK, I managed to get an answer from the Chairman of the International Engine of the Year Awards, Mr. Dean Slavnich, who among other general stuff wrote this very interesting bit:

    /* begin quote */
    "For the record all-new Prius this year did not finish in the top six for the Green Engine Award. This could partly be down to the fact that only journalist in Japan were allowed to drive this powertrain during the first and second quarters of this year."
    /* end quote */

    So there you have it. From a total of 65 journalists that make the jury, only 1 (Japanese) knew anything about the car.

    The 2 main questions IMO are:

    1) If not all journalists knew the car, shouldn't the car be rulled out of the competition? This way we would know that the car has a fair chance next year when everybody knows it;

    2) If only 1 journalist knew the car, how come the Prius came 2nd place on the 1.8 litre category??? This only shows they vote for cars/engines/powertrains without knowing them, does it not?

    All the charm these awards had has just vanished now that I know how it works. The fact that the Prius has won the last year's green/economy categories does not matter that much either.

    I thought there was some kind of objectiveness or science behind the Awards.
    Now I see it's all about journalists subjectiveness. Bah.
     
    #12 jprates, Aug 13, 2009
  13. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    sounds like we need a better judging system
     
    #13 DaveinOlyWA, Aug 13, 2009
  14. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Thanks for going above and beyond to find that out. It sounds like journalists have to travel to Japan to get a test drive. As I suspect this goes back to the timing of the 2010 Prius release. Prius was introduced in Japan on May. The new model wasn't available world wide for the journalists/judges to evaluate. I was surprise 2010 model was in the 2009 year award. Getting 2nd place in 1.4-1.8 liter category without a fair chance of getting evaluated is a good sign. This just show the interest in the car.

    Next year award should be interesting. I agree that they "messed up" with qualification pick. It might have been better if they ask the judges to evaluate 2009 Prius with 1.5 liter instead.
     
    #14 usbseawolf2000, Aug 13, 2009
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