Comparison Test: 2009 Toyota Prius vs. 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI

Shawn, you're certainly free to believe what you will.

In the end, all Mike and I can do is restate the formal definition which is neither ambiguous nor lacking in subjective authority.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

John;

Like almost anything in life, evolution is a inseparable component of anything that has a perennial lifespan. Even hypermiling is not free of this rather simple rule.

With this in mind, Hypermiling did evolve from its humbler beginnings thanks to a growing community and contributions from folks from all backgrounds who aligned themselves with "Wayne's idea".
Yes, it eventually became a discipline that is supported by a finite and well established toolkit of techniques. Some of these techniques remain unchanged from Wayne's earlier interpretations, while others where either optimized or created to fit a specific objective.

While it is not my wish to go into further details, including the underlying governing methodology, the fact remains that Wayne remains the father of modern hypermiling and the current supporting toolkit despite its level of maturity, will forever be evolving to meet the needs of a changing world.

By the way, some of us do have long memories too... but however appreciated it may be by many, your perspective on something of this nature remains bound by your interpretation of the facts. This is true for my account of facts and as it would be for anyone else and I only ask that it be taken with an appropriately sized grain of salt.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Most 2010 Prius owners will exceed EPA estimates without even trying. I just can't imagine it being acceptable to waterdown the term like that. Whatever.
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So why have some Prius owners displayed a very serious attitude problem towards the TDI owners who didn't dump on the Prius?

You know who you are, and don't kid yourself that you didn't.

I'm here for fuel efficiency, regardless of brand, which is probably why this is not my primary forum.

 

Memory allows for perspective interpretation afterward, blogs don't. They are documented facts as close to the event as possible. They are the history noted as it happened.
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I apsire to do far better than average, so I also want to know what the excellent drivers are getting.

 

Man you VW drivers can be pretty sticky about this hypermiling definition. I suppose that I am a bit spoiled driving a Prius that averages 45mpg in city/urban driving. If a get 46mpg, then I would chalk that up to the beans that I ate for lunch helping me out. If I drove a diesel Jetta that only got 30 mpg in the same driving routine, and I one day got 31 mpg, then yes I would call it hypermiling, especially if diesel is selling for $1 more per gallon than regular unleaded that day.

 

My apologies... You mean... your blogs? My blogs? Other blogs?

Seriously, even if a blog had been written by Mahatma Gandhi or Moses himself, that alone is not enough to make it a documented fact.

Only at the risk of self-aggrandizement would I choose ignore other alternate perspectives, which whether documented or not, are still a reflection of our narrow minded and myopic view of the world at that time.

While it may still be a fact to us and those who think alike, it would also be pretty audacious (if not arrogant) of us to push it as such to anyone else who may have seen it all from a different perspective.

While I truly respect and appreciate your account of the "events" (written or not), your account remains only one of many.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Funny thing is that your "formal definition" is not the definition to be found online from multiple sources. It is not in line with public perception either, nor does it make sense in looking at the term hyper. If your aim is to make the term "hypermiling" without any practical meaning then I can understand your argument. Essentially all but high speed/jack rabbit start/stop driving will become hypermiling by your definition. That's simply absurd.

I would call your definition "better miling" or something similarly weak and ambiguous since it can be done without even employing hypermiling techniques...oops, now there's a problem for your definition... Simply exceeding a base value is anything but "hyper."

 

Shawn;

There's only one true source of the formal definition for the term, and that's CleanMPG. Its that simple.
All other so called "sources" are likely neither endorsed nor approved... just like so much of the other internet garbage many of us innocently find on the Internet.

Like I said, take it as you wish.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Actually, the meandering "definition" on CleanMPG really isn't phrased as a defintion. Instead it describes the driver and immediately jumps into describing how hypermilers use techniques to greatly exceed the norms. I will point out the following from CleanMPG's meandering definition: "While Hypermiling is about a variety of techniques to improve a vehicles [sic] fuel economy..." Techniques are central to the definition of hypermiling which was also the point Bob made.

Plus the EPA rating factors have changed back and forth, making many who were not hypermiling retroactive-hypermilers by your interpretation.

Maybe Seftonm is wants an extremely broad definition because the sig lists a 48.3 mpg lifetime average for a vehicle that has a 42/49 EPA rating...while claiming "skilled hypermiler?" Hmm, that would seem to be the issue several of us here are pointing to with TDI claims, now wouldn't it? I'm at 107% of my car's EPA rating (lifetime), but it is barely broken in, I'm stuck running on 10% ethanol, and I would be very hesitant to call myself a hypermiler.

Claim what you like, but the definition you are asserting defies logic and is at odds with numerous phrases in CleanMPG's own "What is Hypermiling?" page...e.g. "Most hypermilers of course, push for pulling out all the stops and the dedicated often achieve 50% or better than the posted EPA mileage figures." Yep, that really sounds like a mealy-mouthed "just exceed EPA mileage" now doesn't it?

 

Care to point them out? I've seen the reverse here, head tool being Hinton.

 

THEN PLEASE POST IT !

Changing definitions has been a chronic problem of the past. I don't want to be blamed for contributing to the dilution... since it is clearly different now than the original and a vague reference simply won't do.

Whatever it is now is fine, but it must be posted.
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No.

Either the guilty know who they are, or they are beyond any possible help from me.

 

" I have here in my hand a list of two hundred and five people that were known to the Secretary of State as..."

Thank you, Senator McCarthy.

 

Seftonm didn't set the generic default "skilled hypermiler" label, the owner of that website did. He doesn't have a 2009 Jetta TDI. His 106% result on a pre-2008 EPA rating since he's been logging translates to 127% on the post-2008 scale, well above your 107% on the later scale.

Both his and your longterm results may hide recent improvements. But I don't see that he has anything to apologize for.

 

q.e.d.

 

Hi Duffer, it has nothing to do with what kind of car I drive or how much I pay for fuel. If you look at MSantos's stable, he doesn't have a VW. He and I (and many others here) are members at CleanMPG, which is the authoritative source on hypermiling. So we like to use the formal definition and stick by it. Nothing to do with what kind of vehicle we own.

 

Hi John, here is how hypermiling is defined in the CleanMPG glossary:

I don't care how broad or narrow the definition is. I want the term to be defined properly, which, in my view, is done by CleanMPG. It has nothing to do with being able to call myself a hypermiler.

Does my 48.3 lifetime mpg somehow invalidate my ability to get 67mpg in a TDI? If you look at my mileage logs at CleanMPG, - Garage An authoritative source on fuel economy and hypermiling, you will find that I have both done much better and much worse than 48.3. I'm a reformed quasi-leadfoot and am slowly bringing the average up.

 

John, with all due respect... you remain the last person I can think of at least, in terms of assigning any blame for anything. Really, you are!
For exactly the same reason, I also don't see you in any kind of position (SME or otherwise) to command anything out of anyone.

While I am quite sure you don't need any help on this front, why don't you just make your way to the site and read the information we make available to the public and members of the media, free of charge.

You can take my word for it. It is free for you as well.

Cheers;

MSantos